A 7.0 earthquake in LA is a little different than a hurricane in GI. There ain't enough helicopters in the world to get the residents here out. Apples to oranges.

Why hoard guns and ammo?
 

Because at any time congress can ban their sale, manufacture, or importation. There are many who have tried, and they will keep doing so. There are many who want the populace disarmed, and support the UNs global disarmament agenda. I have approx 15k of 5.56x45, 7.62x51, 7.62x39, 5.45x39, 45ACP. Lots of spare parts, and magazines. I am not paranoid, I don't sit waiting for something to happen. I can't accept the possibility of my not being able to defend me and mine if the need arose.

And we had more/better than the Vientamese folks (as did the French). And more/better than the Iraqis....

My sister lives in LA, out towards the border with Pasadena. She lives towards the top of a hill, and her immediate area is nice, but the areas in valley....NOT nice. Both of my parents and I have told them to have a shotgun in the house, just in case. They absolutely refuse to have a gun. I simply cannot fathom it. They both grew up in familys with folks that hunted. Were not asking them to become gun nuts, just have a box of shells and an 870 in attic just in case. I don't think it is far fetched at all to think that in the case of a major earthquake, you could have civil unrest in LA. Clearly the population has show that this is a possibility.


Guys, I was not arguing against having guns, I was just saying that I didn't see a point in have 10,000 rounds and 50 guns.

Oh....and the ammo prices argument? Dunno man, like gold prices, I think that ship sailed long ago. The time to stock pile ammo was 5 years ago. Prices today are insane.

Glad to see we were actually able to make it 3 pages without this turning into poltical mayhem.....

I should have used the [drippingwithsarcasm] tags, huh? ;)

What's the shelf life of modern ammo?

Do you really think you have anything in your arsenal that's a match for what the Army/Air Force/Marines/Navy have at their disposal? And communications and backup aren't an ocean away anymore. Hell, the Long Beach PD probably has you out-gunned.

Nice platitude, but irrelevant.

You know who they are; they incessantly post about their personal armory.

Did you actually think that through before you posted it? There was nothing anti-American about my post, just clear, simple logic.

Seriously: any armed uprising would have to consist of a lot of people, well armed and under control - ie 'well regulated militia' - good luck with that. Anything less would be considered nothing more than someone 'going postal'. In a day and age where they send SWAT teams to serve bench warrants for skipping jury duty, they odds are not in your favor.

The question I put to you is: do you think a Second American Revolution be possible today, and if so, how would it be played out? The only way I see it happening is if 2 or more branches of the armed services 'turned'.

Longer than anyone who buys it is likely to live.

Thom, I understand your POV. I think the answer to your question is a little different than how you are looking that the situation.

Many of the same things were true in 1860. It turns out that a geographic split made a real war possible. Soldiers from Virginia fought soldiers from Delaware...

After watching two bank robbers hand LAPD their lunch in the N. Hollywood shootout, I not only wouldn't want to rely on the police for any kind of help, I also wouldn't worry about their outgunning me if it came to gun confiscation raids. I doubt the military would be able to muster enough men willing to fire on American citizens. Short of a declaration of martial law, they'd be committing several crimes by even thinking about assisting police in such an action. Lots of military folks are regular, law-abiding gun folks. And if you were assigned such a task, would you find such a government still worth defending?

I don't think that anyone sane plans on shooting it out with the police and military. More like protecting yourself/family/home from unfettered gangs of criminal looters/robbers/rapists/etc. in the event of total breakdown of public services, which is more than a possibility. It's actually happened several times recently in the U.S. When it happens in L.A., it's a little different from happening in Galveston or even San Jose.

Even the vegetarians with cardboard shoes were looking for gats and bullets during the L.A. riots. It was terrifying for people to be a prisoner in their houses watching the local news and trying to figure out if the rioters are getting near them. That's a realistic scenario, not fighting the government.

reminds me, I need to buy that 870...

I concur. But I can't help but think of a quote I read somewhere recently. Somthing to the effect that, if people had fought back, even in vain, with chairs and kitchen knives when Stalin's NKVD or KGB came to arrest them, Stalin would have had a lot fewer willing participants in his purges. When's the last time BATF decided to conduct a massive raid? I think they learned a good lesson at Waco.

I'm thinking either Mini 14 or M1 Carbine.

Both are available at a shop a few blocks away. Having a tough time deciding. What would you pick?

Right now I could only kill 7 people with really good shots. Would that even qualify me a serial killer?

depends. Are they zombies or in-laws?

Oh wait, one of those groups is un-dead...

They're both kind of a gimmie.

Very tough call. I think .223 is a little easier to come by than .30-06 and it's a lot cheaper. I think the Mini 14 would be easier to lug aroung and they take a folding stock pretty easily. Everyone needs an M1, but man, they are heavy to lug around and I sure wouldn't want to shoot one without ear protection. The guys who carried them in WWII truly were the greatest generation.

I think you're kind of missing how a modern revolution would go down. You would see large portions of law enforcement, the miltary, and government unwilling to apply lethal force to their own people. You would also see many join the revolution. Sections of the country would be on their own as it were.

It would be ugly, but it would be very possible.

It wouldn't be a full-on in the streets shoot-out. There would be demonstrations, diplomacy, and certainly some pockets of violence when things got out of control.

Our government would not be equipped to defend against it. It sounds awful and unspeakable yes, but it's also the most patriotic thing one can do when the government no longer serves the needs of the country.

I'm certainly not saying I would organize such a thing- or even that America needs one. Being a bit of a history buff it's hard for me to ignore that we had some good times following our last one.

many people own guns for other reasons... for example, huge numbers of people from other cultures tend to flood into Oregon.

here is a pic of the Oregon Welcome Wagon - who greet newly arrived people interested in moving into our state


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1222718994.jpg

I always resisted the idea of keeping a gun at home until the Los Angeles riots in 92.

At the time, I lived in a very affluent city with my wife and children. During the rioting, thugs started loitering on street corners to see if others might show up so they could join in on the looting and pilageing. My father-in-law pleaded with me to buy a gun until things were under control. So, I bought a 12 guage pump shot gun and a modest amount of ammo.

To be honest, I don't like the idea of owning a gun in the middle of suburbia. But, after witnessing the way scum reacts during a period of civil crisis, I am glad I have one. After reading this thread, I think I am going to buy a couple more cartons of buckshot and slugs.

Mike

If you field-dressed and ate them, then yes.

My only recourse is going to be to mod the 911.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1218933733.jpg

It'll have to be converted to run on human blood.

I won't need no stinkin' guns (nor badges...).

Hey this all Bushs fault, well wait a minute it is all the Dems fault...no wait..I am just so confused...

So, does anyone have a source listing who voted how? I'd like to see which Reps I support ;)

I believe you might be confusing the M1 Carbine ( a 5.25 lb short rifle which fires a .30 carbine round that is, with factory loads, similar to a .38 Spl. pistol cartridge in terminal ballistics) with the M1 Garand (a full sized 9.5 lb rifle which fires the .30 - '06 cartridge). Apples to oranges.

My opinion is to purchase the .223 and use the latest 117 gr bullets (in a barrel with 1-7 or 1-9 twist) for substantially increased stopping power out to 500 yards.

In any case, fire one of these three weapons without ear protection in a closed small space will cause immediate hearing loss.

Only if they had General Mills T-shirts on.

Do you have to use a Special AK-47?

who voted how

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2008-674

my bad, i copied the wrong bill

LOL. Armed Forces is about 3 mil.

Guns.

The number of privately owned guns in the U.S. is at an all-time high. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) estimates that there were about 215 million guns in 1999,1 when the number of new guns was averaging about 4.5 million (about 2%) annually.2 A report for the National Academy of Sciences put the 1999 figure at 258 million.3 According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, there were 60.4 million approved (new and used) NICS firearm transactions between 1994 2004.4 The number of NICS checks for firearm purchases or permits increased 3.2% between 2003-2004.

Gun Owners.

The number of gun owners is also at an all-time high. The U.S. population is at an all-time high (294 million), and rises about 1% annually.5 Numerous surveys over the last 40+ years have found that almost half of all households have at least one gun owner.6 Some surveys since the late 1990s have indicated a smaller incidence of gun ownership,7 probably because of some respondents` concerns about "gun control," residually due, perhaps, to the anti-gun policies of the Clinton Administration.

Sorry...our military is outnumbered/out-armed by civilians.

I recall going to the range the weekend after 9/11 and the gun store's shelves were bare! They had zero inventory.

the fact remains that the us IS heading for something big and i for one would like to be able to protect myself and my family if/WHEN the time comes. i mean if iraqi citizens can duke it out with our armed forces what makes you think that we cant.

oh and btw im not a gun nut im just a person who has lost all faith in the american goverment.

Thom, do you honestly think that the US Military could--or more importantly, would--handle an uprising in large numbers?

"I was just following orders" may work great when shooting Iraqi insurgents but I suspect it would be a different story if they were asked to shoot at Joe Sixpack.

No chance could they or would they. We ain't gonna pull all our forward-deployed forces back stateside. What's already here would not be able to handle a serious uprising or civil unrest. If law and order were truly out the window, most Americans would be stunned to see what kind of firepower is in civilian hands and then comes out of the woodwork. Just go to any decent size gun show and you'll get small sampling of what's out there. And that's just the stuff people are willing to show off in public under the watchful eyes of the undercover BATF agents. The stuff that's really out there would floor you.

Not really; a good friend of mine is a Class III dealer. I get to play with all kinds of fun toys. :D

the military wouldn't attack it's own people . the military is there to protect the people and not necessarily the government. in fact i have a feeling that if it got right down to a mad max ending that 90% of the troops would be on the civilian side because after all they are just like us

New Orleans

Rick,

.223 is probably the way to go, I concur. The M1 Carbine is not .06 but 30 cal carbine. It is less powerful than the .223.

Addressing some of the other comments regarding 10,000 rounds of ammo and 50 guns is that the ammo is better than cash when there is civil unrest.

As far as taking on the military and the police, probably not but rioters, in laws and zombies the more ammo the better and longer reach weapons with close in shotguns if the inlaws do get inside for dinner.