FIA Spa Verdict: The FIA has no spine

[legion]

They refused to hear the appeal. What pansies. They don't want to have to justify the contortions of logic that they used to strip Hamilton of a clear victory. I'm disgusted.

[Aerkuld]

You seem suprised?

[Zef]

They never had...

[sammyg2]

,

[livi]

Nobody claims FIA to be a corruption free organization.

[Henry Schmidt]

I totally agree with the decision. Ever since Ham Bone claimed he would be the number one driver on any team, even one with MS, I have written him off.

Just for clarity, the "appropriate court" heard McLaren's case. Then because of the rules clearly stated in writhing, the panel ruled that "drive through penalties" were not subject to appeal. McLaren had their say and as is so common with McLaren they ran a foul of the rules.

BTW: every F1 driver currently on the grid felt Ham Bone violated the rules. They also felt that the penalty was harsh. A 25 second penalty is not terribly harsh, the timing of it was. Sometimes timing is everything.

[Neilk]

How big would the penalty have been if Hamilton had won by 25.5 seconds?

So he cut the chicane, big deal, he gave the position back and McLaren even asked and got confirmation TWICE that he abided by the rules. I think once Kimi had crashed, a drive thru was no longer necessary.

[Steve PH]

The FIA are a law unto themselves. They should have told Mclaren that they couldn't appeal. Instead they were vague about it and wasted everyone's time.

Personally I believe any penalty imposed after the race has ended should be appea-able. Weather you win the appeal is another matter.

[Noah930]

Originally Posted by Neilk

How big would the penalty have been if Hamilton had won by 25.5 seconds?

Same thing I've been wondering these past couple weeks. I betcha I know the answer: 30 second penalty.

[sammyg2]

I watched one of those F1 shows last night, F1 recap or whatever. They showed all the stupid crap hambone pulled in that race, all the other cars he almost took out, all the cars the made contact with because of his over-aggression, all the other drivers that had to make evasive maneuvers to keep from getting crashed out by the tool.

There were several other drivers who were not too happy with the was the punk was driving. Sooner or later someone who is near the end of their contract and doesn't have much to loose is going to get tired of it and punt hammy into the wall. Hard. And he will have it coming.

[legion]

The FIA was going to give Massa a post-race drive through penalty after Valencia, but since the 25 seconds would have cost him the win, they gave him a $10,000 fine instead. The issue here is the VERY uneven application of rules with the obvious goal of making sure Ferrari wins the championship.

And Sammy, if Raikonnen, Massa, or Alonso were driving like Hamilton, I bet I'd hear you'd say they were "geniuses" or were "showing everyone who's boss". The whole point of F1 is to be aggressive, or else everyone would finish in the order they started and there wouldn't be a race. Races with no position changes are boring.

The FIA making sure they get the results they want is scandalous and will kill the sport. If no appeal was allowed they could have said that WHEN THE APPEAL WAS MADE three weeks ago, not the day they promised to render a decision.

[URY914]

Originally Posted by legion

the fia was going to give massa a post-race drive through penalty after valencia, but since the 25 seconds would have cost him the win, they gave him a $10,000 fine instead. The issue here is the very uneven application of rules with the obvious goal of making sure ferrari wins the championship.

And sammy, if raikonnen, massa, or alonso were driving like hamilton, i bet i'd hear you'd say they were "geniuses" or were "showing everyone who's boss". The whole point of f1 is to be aggressive, or else everyone would finish in the order they started and there wouldn't be a race. Races with no position changes are boring.

The fia making sure they get the results they want is scandalous and will kill the sport. If no appeal was allowed they could have said that when the appeal was made three weeks ago, not the day they promised to render a decision.

a+

[Aerkuld]

To make a point of the uneven application of the rules...

At the Monza race directly following Spa, Massa drove over the chicane curbs to pass Heidfeld. Almost a lap later Massa is seen to slow down and let Heidfeld back past. Massa clearly cut the chicane to pass a car and made no effort at all to slow down imediately afterwards. Hamilton clearly cut the chicane but let Kimi back past, even if it was just for half the length of the straight. Why does Hamilton get a 25 second penalty (effectively a drive through penalty) but Massa does not?

[cl8ton]

I think current FIA wisdom went down kinda like this at the SPA incident…

Perceived Problem: LH straightens the chicane …ok we need to penalize him, but we need to make
sure he is still on the podium as to not draw fan outrage.

Q: How many seconds was the last Ferrari behind LH that was at least P2 on the podium?
A: That would be Massa 15 seconds behind LH

Q: How many seconds behind Massa was the next driver?
A: Heidfeld, about 9 seconds behind Massa

Q: How many seconds behind Heidfeld was the next driver?
A: That would be Alonso 15 seconds behind Heidfeld.

Q: OK, we penalize LH 25 seconds, he is still on the podium and a Ferrari wins! This sound OK to you officials?
A: You’re a genius boss, Enzo gives Bernie a big thumbs up!

I really wonder if the FIA has a calculator they feed numbers into to come up with the penalty seconds

[Henry Schmidt]

The rule book clearly states that a drive through penalty can/ should be imposed. If the offense is at the end of the race and a drive through can not be imposed, a 25 second penalty will be substituted. No random number. As I said before " timing is everything"

If the stewards had suggested a lethal injection it would be ok with me

[Noah930]

What does the rule book say about filing of appeals?

[legion]

Originally Posted by Henry Schmidt

The rule book clearly states that a drive through penalty can/ should be imposed. If the offense is at the end of the race and a drive through can not be imposed, a 25 second penalty will be substituted. No random number. As I said before " timing is everything"

If the stewards had suggested a lethal injection it would be ok with me

Funny, during the race, they assured McLaren THREE TIMES that there would be no penalty. They just changed their mind after the fact.

Imagine if during a football game the refs got together after the game, decided that someone had committed an offsides penalty during a play that the coach had specifically checked with the refs on and was told during the game was okay, and the awarding of the penalty was just enough to change the outcome of the game. Then after the (now) losing team appealed, they were told that a verdict would be rendered in three weeks, then three weeks later told that an appeal is not allowed. That is exactly what happened here.

You cannot decide the outcome of sporting events after the fact. It flies in the face of what a sport is. The only exception is when an athlete egregiously and flagrantly breaks the rules and gives up all pretenses of playing the sport (like beating a fellow competitor unconscious). Cutting a chicane if F1 is like being offsides in football. It happens ALL THE TIME. It should be addressed at the moment it happens or not addressed at all.

And its funny that Ferrari has done the exact same thing during numerous races (including the most recent) and has never been penalized. Never.

You guys who root for Ferrari must also be Patriots fans, because they play the same dirty game.

[idontknow]

Originally Posted by Henry Schmidt

The rule book clearly states that a drive through penalty can/ should be imposed. If the offense is at the end of the race and a drive through can not be imposed, a 25 second penalty will be substituted. No random number. As I said before " timing is everything"

If the stewards had suggested a lethal injection it would be ok with me

Then you're saying Massa & Ferrari have a special exemption from the rules?

[Henry Schmidt]

Originally Posted by Noah930

What does the rule book say about filing of appeals?

The rules say "drive through penalties are not subject to appeal ". Because Ham Bone was assessed a drive through penalty translated as 25 second because of timing there is no appeal available.

Originally Posted by legion

Funny, during the race, they assured McLaren THREE TIMES that there would be no penalty. They just changed their mind after the fact.

Imagine if during a football game the refs got together after the game, decided that someone had committed an offsides penalty during a play that the coach had specifically checked with the refs on and was told during the game was okay, and the awarding of the penalty was just enough to change the outcome of the game. Then after the (now) losing team appealed, they were told that a verdict would be rendered in three weeks, then three weeks later told that an appeal is not allowed. That is exactly what happened here.

You cannot decide the outcome of sporting events after the fact. It flies in the face of what a sport is. The only exception is when an athlete egregiously and flagrantly breaks the rules and gives up all pretenses of playing the sport (like beating a fellow competitor unconscious). Cutting a chicane if F1 is like being offsides in football. It happens ALL THE TIME. It should be addressed at the moment it happens or not addressed at all.

And its funny that Ferrari has done the exact same thing during numerous races (including the most recent) and has never been penalized. Never.

You guys who root for Ferrari must also be Patriots fans, because they play the same dirty game.

Mclaren got assurances from race control, not the stewards. Race control has the responsibility of safety, timing and scoring not rules interpretation. Rules interpretation is the sole purview of the stewards.

Mclaren knew this. If they [Mclaren] thought Ham Bone had performed properly why did they keep requesting absolution?

The football analogy is not apropos. The refs in a football game are charged with rules interpretation and enforcement. . In F1, race control is not charged with rules enforcement or interpretation.

[Henry Schmidt]

Originally Posted by idontknow

Then you're saying Massa & Ferrari have a special exemption from the rules?

I get a kick when malcontents keep repeating the "FIA loves Ferrari" scenario. As a Ferrari fan, I can just say "too bad".

I think the conspiracy nuts saw Ferrari Red on the "Grassy Knoll in Dallas". Maybe you guys can get Oliver Stone to plead your case. .