Flash - Bailout package voted down

[dtw]

At the risk of going political, Pelosi is getting hung out to dry right now. Her Big Speech really ired the house.

[The Gaijin]

Financial billions are 1,000 x $1,000,000.

Not 1,000,000 x $1,000,000.

Just the way it is added up...

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by nostatic

will you be able to tell the difference?

-zing! Because who really needs an excuse to drive a stake through their mother-in-law's heart?

[HardDrive]

Originally Posted by Rich76_911s

Credit makes the world go round, without it we are in Barney Rubble trouble!

Yes. We are in trouble. But perhaps....just maybe....people will see the benefits of a shift back to a cash economy on some level.

If you need to pay your payroll, perhaps you should.....wait for it....have enough cash to pay them?

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by dtw

I have been 'this close' to putting a bunch of money in financial stocks. 33% of it would have been into Wachovia. WaMu probably would have been another one of them. That sensible voice inside me that kept whispering "now is not the time" appears to have won the day. Still leaves me trying to figure out where to invest right now, though.

Hi-end children's clothing is the next big thing.

[Noah930]

Originally Posted by HardDrive

Yes. We are in trouble. But perhaps....just maybe....people will see the benefits of a shift back to a cash economy on some level.

If you need to pay your payroll, perhaps you should.....wait for it....have enough cash to pay them?

I understand your sentiment. But it's also a bit unrealistic to expect all businesses in America (particularly smaller, Mom 'n Pop ones) to have enough liquid cash reserves to keep running indefinitely. How are people supposed to start-up businesses? Obtaining a loan (which your business model reasonably supports) is one way to do so. If people were rich enough to finance their start-ups themselves, perhaps they wouldn't need to be working for a living in the first place. Just invest that million dollar(s) nest egg and live off the profits.

But what happens if your creditors can't pay you, and you in turn can't pay your employees. There's only so much cash in reserve until every company runs its bank account dry.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

Hi-end children's clothing is the next big thing.

For zombies? It's an emerging market!

[rammstein]

Reality lies between the two. We swung way too far into overborrowing. Now it will be time for the opposite extreme. No money for anyone.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Rich76_911s

You guys are a little crazy....

Credit makes the world go round, without it we are in Barney Rubble trouble!

Call me crazy, but I'm going to be just fine regardless of what transpires. I respectfully disagree as I believe the lack of fudiciary responsibility and "loose credit" is exactly what got us here in "Barney Rubble trouble" ( I like that) in the first place. IMO, let the chips fall where they may, and keep taxpayer $s out of the equation. Everyone is talking about the sky falling, but it will not...just watch. Credit will indeed get tight (a good thing imo), and I am just not a proponent of socialization (and that's exactly what this bailout would be imo).

[charleskieffner]

now how is this gonna affect lil ol me? my investments are in 4 stakes and dirt. not homes/not buildings/not apts/not commercial land.

bought it fully well knowing markets can swing either way. very historical considering im 51yrs old and lived in az all my life watching BOOM/BUST cycle my entire life.

lets see...........what do i need to buy????

guns........no

bullets......no

food........got freezer full of elk and 3 bull elk tags that should last longer than most.

cars........nope

trucks ...........nope

tools............nope

motorcycles/quad(if i really need to be cheap to get to werk)

renovations to home..............nope all done updating/remodeling

what me WORRY????

so what if nobody buys my land for a few years. so what if i loose my job, all i owe is less than 60k and i can pay that off now.

sooooooooooooo the only people who are pissing themselves are idiots that made POOR INVESTMENTS ie. get rich quick schemes and i have no sympathy.

never was a gambler, never will be a gambler, and playing stock market is legalized gambling.(please read small print on bottom of broker papers).

the pendulum has swung...............along with the guillotine! it will swing again to the opposite as it always does.

i just choose to live a modest life and not HANG MY ASS OUT INTO SPACE!

when there is no gas to be had, the grocery stores are empty...............thats when i might think about jumping out my first story window and hijacking the first beer truck i see!

neither my wells fargo amigo/hunting buddy are worried in the least. actually glad WE DIDNT BAIL OUT A BUNCH OF FAT CAT POO HEADS!

[kstar]

Unlike the '29 crash, I would argue there are huge amounts on cash "on the sidelines" as well as a very large number or corporations with no debt.

I believe that credit needs will be filled in many creative, market driven ways by this, so far, "wait and see" cash.

That's how things should work in a capitalistic system, IMHO.

[911teo]

The plan was flawed, but it was something.

There is a lot of ignorance around. People think the govt is giving away Carrera GTs....

It will hit close to home. For everybody. You can save yourself if

1) you do not have any debt/mortgate,
2) do not own any real estate
3) do not own any stock
4) have pulled all your money from your bank account and bought Treasury bills

For the survivors it will be great. Lot's of opportunities will be avaliable, especially when cashh will be so needed....

And guess who's going to have lots of cash?

Joe Small? The guy that will struggle to meet ends for 2 years....

Yes, you guessed it.. those fat cats that made a lot of money in the good times, saw the bad times coming and were quicker than anybody else (they are in the mkts, they could see it happening) to pull out.

Good luck everybody.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by 911teo

The plan was flawed, but it was something.

There is a lot of ignorance around. People think the govt is giving away Carrera GTs....

It will hit close to home. For everybody. You can save yourself if

1) you do not have any debt/mortgate,
2) do not own any real estate
3) do not own any stock
4) have pulled all your money from your bank account and bought Treasury bills

For the survivors it will be great. Lot's of opportunities will be avaliable, especially when cashh will be so needed....

And guess who's going to have lots of cash?

Joe Small? The guy that will struggle to meet ends for 2 years....

Yes, you guessed it.. those fat cats that made a lot of money in the good times, saw the bad times coming and were quicker than anybody else (they are in the mkts, they could see it happening) to pull out.

Good luck everybody.

Please explain 1 and 2. I live in an area that has experienced 6% yearly real estate appreciation for decades, and have a 20 year fixed rate mortgage with a small conservative local bank (in-house loan). How will this negatively affect me, considering a significant drop in home value is unlikely, and I don't have any worries about my interest rate adjusting?

This entire mess reiterates the classic tortise-hare story. Slow, steady, and conservative sometimes really does win the race.

[911teo]

Originally Posted by KC911

Call me crazy, but I'm going to be just fine regardless of what transpires. I respectfully disagree as I believe the lack of fudiciary responsibility and "loose credit" is exactly what got us here in "Barney Rubble trouble" ( I like that) in the first place. IMO, let the chips fall where they may, and keep taxpayer $s out of the equation. Everyone is talking about the sky falling, but it will not...just watch. Credit will indeed get tight (a good thing imo), and I am just not a proponent of socialization (and that's exactly what this bailout would be imo).

Keith

I usually agree with your positions. This time you find me on the opposite side.

It is difficult to understand from the outside but Wachovia went down in 1 afternoon.

This is not "tight" credit conditions. This is a broken market.

I agree that loose credit got us here. But when we get out of this you can expect a ton of legislation so the idea of free markets is already gone.

I hate govt intervention and this bailout stinks.

But maybe you are right. After all we need a 30-40% correction in assets. And life would certainly be simpler....

Imagine business that repair stuff would come back (people would not buy a tv every year just because it is 2 inches wider), cars would be built to last, groceries would be grown locally as it would be too expensive to move them around quickly...

I like that new world

[Seahawk]

They are doing what politicians do, posturing...they'll pass it when they feel they have covered their collective a$$es enough to appease their constituents. Each and every one of them know that if we enter a depression they are all out on their bums...there isn't enough spin to cover the, "it was them, not me" bravo sierra.

Dodd is scrambling the most, even blamed Bush though he rode the ease of credit wave to unqualified buyers in the late 90's.

[Heel n Toe]

Originally Posted by Rich76_911s

You guys are a little crazy. What happens if your employer losses access to credit and can't pay payroll. Or if your local grocery store losses access to credit and can't put anything on the shelves? Credit makes the world go round, without it we are in Barney Rubble trouble!

Exactly... it could get bad enough that local governments aren't able to make payroll because there isn't enough money coming in in taxes.

You don't want to know what happens then. Just think who is on those payrolls... police, fire departments, etc.

I'm not one to buy into all the scare tactics of those in guvmint telling us we've got to do this now, I'm basing this on sound, stable people I've talked to, seen on TV, heard on radio, etc.

This isn't just about whether to bail out "fatcats" or not... this is serious $#!+, and it can hit the fan quicker than you think.

At that point, it'll be hungry people trying to feed themselves and their families any way they can.

[masraum]

Party at Chuck K's place this weekend!!!

[911teo]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Please explain 1 and 2. I live in an area that has experienced 6% yearly real estate appreciation for decades, and have a 20 year fixed rate mortgage with a small conservative local bank (in-house loan). How will this negatively affect me, considering a significant drop in home value is unlikely, and I don't have any worries about my interest rate adjusting?

This entire mess reiterates the classic tortise-hare story. Slow, steady, and conservative sometimes really does win the race.

Matt

You are right. I apologize. If you have a fixed mtge with a rate locked then you know what your interest costs are going to be until the end of its life.

But your bank might have some wachovia shares, or some credit with a local company that had investments or a credit line that has been pulled.

And because they cannot survive for liquidity on the deposits they might find themselves in trouble.

And if one were to have trouble making payments (losing their job etc) or to sell the house then it would be extremely difficult.

Seriously this stuff will affect everybody. Take Charlotte NC. House prices were goin up until March this year. People would say it was an oasis, a unique phenomenon in the US. Well guess what? In 2 days the mkt will be 20-30% down. And if you think I am exagerating I am not....

With Wachovia down and a lot of the big earners not getting paid (most of their bonuses were in stock, and on top of that most of those guys were probably deferring compensation to gain tax benefits) the mkt will bust quickly.

So nowhere is immune. And this randomness of who's going down makes it more scary.

[rouxroux]

Originally Posted by Rich76_911s

Credit makes the world go round, without it we are in Barney Rubble trouble!

But remember Rich, Barney Rubble trouble is only one step away from Hoogie Boogie Laaaaauuuunnnndddduh! WHEW!!

[Heel n Toe]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Please explain 1 and 2. I live in an area that has experienced 6% yearly real estate appreciation for decades, and have a 20 year fixed rate mortgage with a small conservative local bank (in-house loan). How will this negatively affect me, considering a significant drop in home value is unlikely, and I don't have any worries about my interest rate adjusting?

Do you think you would be allowed to stay in your home if you lost your job and couldn't make the payments?