Good cop, bad cop

[BGCarrera32]

Dueller- in your neck of the woods, what is the education level required to become a LEO? I know up here its a 2 year in LE + 6 mos to 1 yr in skills component, or a 4 year and 6 mos. of skills drills, both need MN POST certification.

Seems like I hear/read about a lot more of the poor judgement/loose cannon type stuff in states down South....just curious.

[9dreizig]

Dueller,, because of you I may actually start liking lawyers!!!! Keep up the good work and get that POS off the street!!

[Dueller]

Met with chief today off the record. Very aware, receptive and concerned about this particular officer. Discussed other epidsodes with other clients. In short said he only needed "one more" complaint against officer by someone who didn't have the issues this client has and problem would be "solved." Another client who has a stellar reputation who was hasseled by this officer has agreed to file a complaint.

We shall see.

[notfarnow]

Originally Posted by Dueller

In short said he only needed "one more" complaint against officer by someone who didn't have the issues this client has and problem would be "solved." Another client who has a stellar reputation who was hasseled by this officer has agreed to file a complaint.

That's a bit unsettling. The chief isn't going to take this incident as seriously because your client has "issues"? I wonder what other exceptions he makes? Is it OK for the wingnut cop to bully prostitutes or people with mental health issues, so long as it's not "upstanding" citizens?

Good for you for pursuing it though, kudos!

[Dueller]

Originally Posted by notfarnow

That's a bit unsettling. The chief isn't going to take this incident as seriously because your client has "issues"? I wonder what other exceptions he makes? Is it OK for the wingnut cop to bully prostitutes or people with mental health issues, so long as it's not "upstanding" citizens?

Good for you for pursuing it though, kudos!

No...he took it very seriously. He seemed concerned on possible retruibution/retaliation given how elevated the tension is with flakey client both on official and personal levels.. Whereas, the other incident/client is egregious enough without the underlying personal conflict.

[notfarnow]

Originally Posted by Dueller

No...he took it very seriously. He seemed concerned on possible retruibution given how escalated the tension is with flakey client independent of their personal issues.. Whereas, the other incident/client is egregious enough without the underlying conflict with other client.

Ahh, makes sense. I should've asked questions instead of making assumptions, sorry

[DonDavis]

If bad cop gets fired or severely disciplined, is there a worry he would put 2 & 2 together and get more pissed? Maybe come after the client and YOU?

Honestly tho, my guess is that all involved just want the guy to realize WHAT he said, deal with it and find peace.

[Dueller]

Well we had the trial today. We ended up before a "hanging" judge who rarely throws out any charges...particularly relatedto DUI's. In short, judge threw out evading police, disorderly, open container and speeding. Has heard the DUI portion and is taking it under advisement...wants to review video evidence.

When a directed verdict was not granted for the DUI, in an effort to show bias against my client, I put both officers on the stand and questioned them about the death threats in front of myself and the prosecutor. They both lied....suprise, suprise. This put the prosecutor (and myself) in a bit of an ethical dilemma because as officers of the Court we have a duty regarding the perjury ....and we're both now witnesses which, if we aRE to testify we must withdraw dfrom our respective roles as defense lawyer and prosecutor.

We shall see as to the ultimate outcome...both regarding the DUI and now the officers perjury.

[ramonesfreak]

dont you now have an absolute duty to withdraw and testify ? man, i wouldnt take a chance at this point

never trust a client :-)

[Dueller]

Originally Posted by srandallf

dont you now have an absolute duty to withdraw and testify ? man, i wouldnt take a chance at this point

never trust a client :-)

Yeah...judge, prosecutor, and I discussed the issues on the record in the presence of my client. Judge then allowed me a recess to discuss with my client. Judge even offerred to allow a continuance for us to withdraw and testify. I also had two other witnesses (both LEO's ...15 yr veterans...who are not with this PD tetsified as to officer's hostile behaviour towards client. So a decision was made to proceed and attempt to show bias/impeachment evidence with these witnesses. Client was good with it.

Considering I got him off the more serious charges that carried up to 2 years + jail time, he thinks I am god.

BTW...one thing that was flattering is the prosecutor applauded my trial work and the judge pulled me aside and told me it was one of the best trial presentations he had seen. That'll make me feel good when the client files a malpractice claim

[ramonesfreak]

your client will be even happier when you testify that the cop is a lying bastard. good luck

[ramonesfreak]

Next time your in court, tell the judge you need a quick recess to bottle feed your possum :-)

[Dueller]

Originally Posted by srandallf

Next time your in court, tell the judge you need a quick recess to bottle feed your possum :-)

LOL...actually we determined it ws a fairly mature shrew, not a possum
It has been returned to the wilds of my backyard.

As to the other, I think I am duty bound to present the perjury info to the DA and see what happens. In the discussion with the judge, the judge let me tell exactly what was said and the prosecutor agreed with my account. If the judge had any cojones he would have hailed the officers in and dressed them down. The judge knows they lied...but technically its not into evidence.

We shall see. Any other judge would have given me a DV, but this one is tough on DUI's.

[9dreizig]

Take those two lying bastards down!!! Hope they are pushing a broom in the local prison..!!!
Just think Dueller, today they are lying against your client, tomorrow they could be dating your step daughters
Get the fuchers off the street!!!

[VroomGrrl]

For the life of me, I do not understand why officer B was allowed out of that room once he threatened to shoot your client in the head. Why was he not arrested and charges brought right then?

[m21sniper]

There is nothing worse than a bad or dirty cop.

Nothing.

Your client sounds like a wannabe cop, those people are frightening in their own right.

[Dueller]

By the luck of the draw I had another trial this a.m. in front of the same judge. Walked in the courtroom at 8:15 a.m and there were half a dozen baillifs and a few court clerks hanging out.

Asked what was going on and they said word had gotten out about my performance yesterday and people wanted to come see me in action. I'M A STAR!!!!! j/k.

Too bad today's trial was continued.

[Macroni]

Originally Posted by RWebb

both officer B and your client need help & rehabilitation

think that solves the ethics issue...

My exact feelings.

There is a saying that the people you dislike the most [your client] tend to have characteristics which represent what you like least about yourself [officer B]. Sounds like they both suffer from depression.

Why do I get the feeling there is a woman involved? Finished reading thread...there was a women.

[GWN7]

I'm surprised the prosecutor didn't do anything based on the officers statements. You should have asked him/her what they intended to do about officer B before the trial, after his statement.

As to the DUI, the judge should throw it out also, as you have the 0.04 reading from the hospital and they have no readings, just officer B's observations and those are obliviously tainted.

[Heel n Toe]

Originally Posted by Dueller

On another note, I have some plausible evidence that Officer B is juiced on 'roids. Picture I have of him 6-9 months ago show him as average size. He's now really bulked up and has a thickened brow. This may explain some of his agressive behavior.x

Make sure you run this angle by his chief if you haven't already. If he has any rapport with officer B at all, he may be able to convince him that this is most likely the cause of his agitated state and inform him of cases of other officers in other parts of the state or country who went postal and ended up dead or in jail after using steroids.

I can see why you're concerned for your safety. If the guy really is juiced, he's not going to be rational, so somehow he needs to be shown that he's not acting in his own best interest to continue using the stuff.

I know it's outside the realm of law enforcement community, but there was that wrestler or cage fighter that killed his wife and kid in the last year or two... or maybe it was just his kid. This guy might know about that case and respond to someone comparing his use of the death threat to that guy going into a rage and killing family.