Question for Milt and who know about welding.

[rnln]

Hi Milt, and everyone,

Just to know where I am at welding... after asking you guys a bunch of questions about "if I can weld", well... I can't weld like a pro. but I can some now. After I bought the Lincohn 100 (can't remember if it's 100 or 101, but it's one of the smallest one at Home Depot), I have been pratice and made some nice things at home.

My question now is really on my front shock housing and spindle (the ring which wrap around the shock housing. My front end makes scary snaping sound when the car go through the up and down motion such as turning the wheel max while driving (most likely won't happen when stand still), 90 degree sharp turn, or sometimes even simply jacking up the car. My mechanic suspect most of the time, it is the spindle, he pointed at the ring which wrap around the shock housing. When these 2 pieces of metal isn't welded well enough, sometimes it make the noise rubbing to each other. He suggested to go to the suspension guys to make sure.

Well, since I have a welding machine at home, should I go for it? My question is if my Lincoln 100 can handle this task? It doesn't have gas, actually I got all the accessories for gas but don't feel comfortable installing them myself. I have been welding without gas and it looks ok

[mb911]

Yeah should be no problem but you want 75-25 gas and er70s-6 maybe-2 to do a good quality job also reset the machine to DCEP vs the current set up of DCEN

direct current electrode positve or negative or reverse polarity/straight polarity respecitvly

[MT930]

Originally Posted by mb911

Yeah should be no problem but you want 75-25 gas and er70s-6 maybe-2 to do a good quality job also reset the machine to DCEP vs the current set up of DCEN

direct current electrode positive or negative or reverse polarity/straight polarity respectively

This Is Right On advise

I would use 75 / 25 shielding mix for that.

Only do it if you have the confidence of getting good penetration. You don't want that failing. The smaller machines are great for sheet metal. You may need more amps to get the heat you desire. Post a picture or your machine and part you intend on welding, I would do a trial run on a part with similar steel thickness. Clean every thing well

[rnln]

1- I want to make sure if it's ok without gas?
2- Do I have to take the shock aparts to weld? Or can I just take off the wheels and weld while everything is still on the car?

The machine is similar to this.


Along the edges, in red, are where I want to weld. To secure the spindle on the shock.

[DasBoot]

Isn't that part filled with fluid or gas? Not sure if I'd be welding on something that has a liquid and/or gas inside.

[KTL]

Originally Posted by DasBoot

Isn't that part filled with fluid or gas? Not sure if I'd be welding on something that has a liquid and/or gas inside.

Depends on what kind of inserts are on his car. If they're original Boge inserts, they are likely the type that has the oil within the strut tube (remove the insert and a bunch of oil and shock guts come out with the shaft) vs. the self-contained inserts like the typical Bilstein replacement inserts.

Whatever the case with the inserts, I think you should remove the strut from the car and clean it up well so you can weld completely around the perimeter of the spindle collar.

[rnln]

I don't know what is the insert inside. The shock/housing said Boge on it. ahh, that's a big job to have it off the car. I was thinking of leaving everything there, just the wheels are off, and weld it. How about remove the wheels, remove the strut insert and weld them?

[dad911]

I had a strut snap at that point, on the track. Obviously not fun, at the end of a long straight to lose braking and steering.

Take it off, clean and inspect the tube carefully for cracks. If bad, toss and replace both.

It is only a few hours to remove and replace strut. If you leave upper camber plate in the car, you will not have to re-align the car.

[rnln]

Let's see if I can get it out:
1- take wheel off.
2- take out the top big nut.
3- take the tie rod off.
4- Brake caliper off.
5- Ball join on the bottom off.
That's it, right?

Or should I just pull the insert off and weld? What is the problem welding it in the car?

[p911dad]

If you weld on the car, remember to disconnect your electronics(dme). Also, car needs to be grounded.

[rnln]

alright, this is what I want to hear. So disconnect battery ground, and DME to ensure. Take the strut insert off the shock housing/tube, and feel free to weld.
Got it. Thanks.

[Zeke]

I just saw this. I'm surprised Ben (mb911) would say to go ahead and weld on your suspension when you admit you're not that experienced and "uncomfortable" with hooking up the equipment.

A Lincoln 100 is a weak machine at best. I'd want to see your welds before you welded on my suspension. One of the trickiest welding processes is to weld up different thicknesses of materials, not to mention those of different composition. If I understand what you are proposing, you are going to attempt to weld a forging to a DOM tube.

Ben is a welding instructor and I'm a student in another state. I wouldn't try to tell him how to weld, that's for sure. But, IMHO, you will get better penetration with a small welder using flux core wire and DCEN. You need to concentrate the puddle on the thicker material just "picking up" the tube part or you'll burn thru. That won't be good.

[jyl]

It is not hard to remove the strut from the car. Might want to check and/or replace the ball joints anyway, our cars are getting old-ish.

If there is a cracked weld/metal there, sufficient to make noise, would you expect to see evidence? Cracked paint, etc?

Isn't it better to remove and disassemble the strut, strip the paint, clean the metal, weld, repaint (or powder coat), and reinstall?

Don't know, just asking.

[billyboy]

But, IMHO, you will get better penetration with a small welder using flux core wire and DCEN.

Don't you mean DCEP ie. straight polarity? for penetration

[rnln]

Milt,
Let me see if I understand this part right. You are saying that for better penetration, I don't have to have gas. I can use the current setup (weld with flux core wire, no gas). Ben probably meant to suggest me to use gas for the weld quality/look.
I had tried different thicknesses before. To do this, I usually start at the thicker piece first and stay at it longer then at the thinner piece. I also adjust the wire speed a little slower so I can stay longer withing flooding the weld.
Until now, my weld are always mixture. Sometimes I can have a very nice looking weld, but sometimes it look just ugly and I can't tell why. Maybe the power wasn't stable because someone was using something heavy such as AC or heater?
I will try to take some pictures and post.

jyl,
The reason why I don't want to dig deep into this myself because I don't see any crack nor anything wrong with my eyes. It was only from someone, who I can trust, said that he have seen this problem/noise in the past, and usually the problem was this weld. Instead of bring it in, I was thinking of trying to add some weld all around the edges to see if I am lucky (if welding these pieces is not that hard). If not, then I know for sure the problem is somewhere else.

Thank you all.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by billyboy

Don't you mean DCEP ie. straight polarity? for penetration

I got this post off the welding forum:

Flux core (at least the type you probably have) is meant to be run with no shielding gas...period. Also, you need to switch the polarity to DCEN or you will end up with swiss cheese welds. Lastly, don't push self-shielding flux cored wire. It is a bad habit and the welds will not be as strong as if the wire is pulled (dragged).

[billyboy]

Milt, I have no experience with flux cored so I stand corrected. Everything I do is with stick and MIG which appears to be opposite of what is recommended for flux core.

[Zeke]

It does get confusing because when welding steel with a TIG machine, one uses DCEN with the gas. That's why I keep a simple manual in my welding gear bag.

[mb911]

Originally Posted by milt

I just saw this. I'm surprised Ben (mb911) would say to go ahead and weld on your suspension when you admit you're not that experienced and "uncomfortable" with hooking up the equipment.

A Lincoln 100 is a weak machine at best. I'd want to see your welds before you welded on my suspension. One of the trickiest welding processes is to weld up different thicknesses of materials, not to mention those of different composition. If I understand what you are proposing, you are going to attempt to weld a forging to a DOM tube.

Ben is a welding instructor and I'm a student in another state. I wouldn't try to tell him how to weld, that's for sure. But, IMHO, you will get better penetration with a small welder using flux core wire and DCEN. You need to concentrate the puddle on the thicker material just "picking up" the tube part or you'll burn thru. That won't be good.

DCEN does not give you better peno what it does is allows for better melting of the filler wire where as DCEP will and always does penatrate much better into the base material specifically because of the co2 enriched argon mixture.

We actually teach a small course in these 110v machines and the weld pak 100 is a small unit but good to about 1/8- to a push of 3/16ths thick. the hobart 140 or miller 140 are really the best choices for the job.

as to if I was recommending welding on the suspension It is all on the owner/operator of the car and machine. I personally would have no problem but that is not to say everybody should take this up as a project if they don't feel comfortable.

oh and should you decide on doing this I would highly suggest a a push type weld keeping the wire on the very front edge of the puddle otherwise you won't get good colesence of materials

[mb911]

Originally Posted by milt

I got this post off the welding forum:

Flux core (at least the type you probably have) is meant to be run with no shielding gas...period. Also, you need to switch the polarity to DCEN or you will end up with swiss cheese welds. Lastly, don't push self-shielding flux cored wire. It is a bad habit and the welds will not be as strong as if the wire is pulled (dragged).

oh and this statement is not completly true you should only pull if you don't need high peno that is fact I could send a copy to anyone whom wants it from our text.. please remember forum are just that a forum it is all opionion. In fact out of the three instructors on our campus we all have different thing that work for us but won't work for everybody. this welding thing is a very soft science.