A Good Case for Having A Sidearm ?

[MT930]

This bear was killed with an arrow. The hunter was cleared under self defense.

I do not know the hunter, this was sent by a friend. Supposedly took place in north western Wyoming. I don't know the Reg's in Wyoming however bow hunters here in southwest Montana are encouraged to have a side arm when bow hunting, this may be a good case for that.

I had a big boar charge me in the fall of 93 all I had was a swiss army knife as a back up weapon. Never again!. I can not verify the the accuracy of this story but it is a good read.

MT



Many of you know that my brother-in-law(Bridgett's husband), Ron, was
attacked by a grizzly bear last weekend in Wyoming, while bow hunting elk
with his dad.



Ron amazingly came through with non life threatening injuries.

Ron, who is an experienced hunter and used to be a guide, was calling an elk
for his dad, who was down hill 40 yards. The elk suddenly spooked and then
Ron heard a noise behind him. He turned around and a grizzly was 15 feet
behind him. He tried to shoo it away but it proceeded toward him. He went
behind a tree and the bear kept coming, so he took off on his 'death run'
down hill towards his dad. With the grizzly just feet behind his son, and
running full speed, Ron's dad shot one arrow. Ron saw the arrow fly by his
leg, unsure of whether it hit the bear, and within a few more steps, Ron was
on his back with the grizzly on top of him. With is arms shielding his
head, Ron kicked and punched the bear with all he had. Ron said it all went
too fast and he was so full of adrenaline, he could not feel any pain at the
time of the attack. When the bear continued to attack, Ron's dad, could see
that the bear was bleeding badly from the arrow, and he went over and
started beating on the bear with his bow(You can not carry guns during bow
hunting, so he had nothing to shoot it). The bear continued to attack Ron,
biting clear through his left hand and glove, and down to the bone of his
right arm just below the elbow. Then the bear, stopped, looking at Ron's
dad, walked away several yards, and rolled over dead.

The bear was autopsied and showed that it was well over 500 lbs(the
grizzlies in that area average 350lbs) and 11 years old(which is in it's
prime). Following the path of the arrow, the autopsy showed that the arrow
went in, hit a main artery, then bent, and hit the heart!

A one in a thousand shot they said.

Another important fact to mention and that gave me chills is that Ron's dad
had had surgery on his arm, because he had injured his arm and was not even
able to pull the bow last season. This was to be his big hunt, and before
the day of the attack, he had already missed two elk that were standing
still. The morning of the attack, Ron's dad (also named Ron), prayed 'God
please guide my arrow today'.

Little did Ron Sr. and Ron know how God would guide his arrow that day!

[legion]

Funny, here in Illinois it is illegal to hunt with a sidearm, bow or shotgun. (Rifle is not allowed.)

[charleskieffner]

one of my 2 worst nightmares..............the other being gobbled up by a great white while diving.

here in arizona it is also illegal to bow hunt with a sidearm.


butt......................since the happy moronic tree huggers want to re-introduce the grizzily back into arizona............im sure if they make it happen, the game/fish law will change.

black bears are bad enough here and in new mexico, this guy is juan lucky hombre.

wow!

[ramonesfreak]

why on earth does any one care if it is illegal to carry a sidearm when you are walking into grizzly bear territory?

does one not do a cost/benefit analysis or weigh the pros/cons of:

1) being eaten or chewed up by a grizzly

vs.

2) being fined, jailed or losing one's permit?

sounds like a stupid law to begin with and seems like you gotta be a moron to go into the woods were grizzly bears live without a gun

there are black bears around here and you wont catch me in the woods without a way to kill them, i dont give a crap what the police say


glad the guy(s) made it out alive. thats sure as hell is a story for the campfire

[ramonesfreak]

what is a greast white?

[pwd72s]

Cougar incidents have made it legal for bow hunters to carry a sidearm in Oregon. I'm passing this thread on to a bow hunter friend.

[charleskieffner]

Originally Posted by srandallf

what is a greast white?

a shark.

being caught poaching/carrying sidearm while bow hunting is a nasty nasty deal.

they can : confiscate vehicle

: confiscate all weapons

: confiscate all possessions in vehicle

: confiscate yer wallet big time

: confiscate your soul

: confiscate yer freedom

and basically fuch up yer life fer some time to come.

aside from loosing yer hunting/fishing priviliges in ALL 50 STATES!

try hanging a spotlight out of vehicle or off quad with a weapon here or in new messiko and see what kind of fun you will have.

[Jeff Higgins]

I have always wondered about that here in Washington. It is illegal to have a sidearm while bowhunting, or a "modern" sidearm while hunting during muzzle loading seasons. Yet Washington is one of the most liberal states in the area of CCW permits; we have a "shall issue" law and a pre-emption law that states no jurisdiction can impose stricter carry laws than the state itself. Both are actually a part of our state Constitution, which is far more specific on this than even the Bill of Rights.

So, I've always wondered. If I have a CCW, why can't I carry while bow hunting? Does our game department trump our state Constitution? I don't think so. Their regulations, passed by their committees, cannot, by law, be stricter than the state Constitution. I don't think they would have a prayer if they tried to prosecute a case.

Incidently, I do carry a side arm while muzzle loading, either my Ruger Old Army cap and ball revolver, or a Lyman Plains Pistol in .54 caliber. Both are legal under our game regs. Neither would do much against a bear, so I have taken to carrying an old Peacemaker in .45 Colt every now and then, loaded with black powder. Our regs state we may not carry a side arm during muzzle loader seasons that "was not originally intended for black powder or a black powder substitute", so I figure I am within the letter of the law on that one. Of course, I don't expect the average fish cop to understand a metalic cartridge side arm "originally intended for black powder", but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

[vash]

this thread made all the archery forums. hunting in bear country is dangerous stuff. you know going in. no firearms during bow season here either. i even take my bow during the rifle season.

i would get nervous on some of the major dangerous hunts. moose, reindeer...in griz country. hell, fishing for salmon could get you eaten. i think you can be armed in BC. i would take a benelli.

[ramonesfreak]

oh great white.. i thought i read "greast white while driving". my bad

well, i dont care what the penalty is, lock my in jail for 2 years.

i aint going into grizzly country without a gun. to do so is like jumping into blood soaked ocean in the dark with your period. dumb

[charleskieffner]

in az. YOU CAN CARRY CONCEALED WHILE HUNTING WITH RIFLE!

also 50 rd clips ARE ALLOWED for .22's while hunting.

centerfire rifles semi auto's can carry 6 rounds. 5 round magazine/clip and 1(juan) in pipe.

[MT930]

In Montana no concealed permit is required when afield.

They are required in town they are a big hassle to get, but well worth it. After a few encounters with wildlife here and in Alaska I can not imagine being afield with out one. I have stopped fishing one of my favorite lakes deep in Yellowstone National Park because no arms are allowed. Pepper spray may work but I don't trust it enough to hike in with my family or myself.

I am never afield on private or public land with out it.

[vash]

the problem is that idiot poachers shoot game illegally with a sidearm and then claim it as a bowkill. blame them.

if i think i am in danger, i dont go. i dont break the law in order to go safely.

[RWebb]

right - poachers

should string 'em up

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by vash

the problem is that idiot poachers shoot game illegally with a sidearm and then claim it as a bowkill. blame them.

if i think i am in danger, i dont go. i dont break the law in order to go safely.

It's pretty darn easy to tell the difference between a bullet wound and an arrow wound. Any fish cop that doesn't know the difference should not even be in the field. That's a pretty thin excuse, if that is what they are using.

I will still go pretty much wherever and whenever I please. I will make a concious decision to ignore the regulations if I feel they are unjust and compromise my safety. I will not be held hostage by some petty little bureaucrat (who is not answerable to the electorate) making up some petty little rules about what I can and cannot have with me when out in the wilderness. Not when it can be a matter of my survival.

[Porsche_monkey]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

Cougar incidents have made it legal for bow hunters to carry a sidearm in Oregon. I'm passing this thread on to a bow hunter friend.

Real cougars sneak up on you and kill you pretty quickly, a side-arm wouldn't likely help.

In a bar they would likely fend off the other kind of cougar. If that's what you wanted to do.

[vash]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

It's pretty darn easy to tell the difference between a bullet wound and an arrow wound. Any fish cop that doesn't know the difference should not even be in the field. That's a pretty thin excuse, if that is what they are using.

I will still go pretty much wherever and whenever I please. I will make a concious decision to ignore the regulations if I feel they are unjust and compromise my safety. I will not be held hostage by some petty little bureaucrat (who is not answerable to the electorate) making up some petty little rules about what I can and cannot have with me when out in the wilderness. Not when it can be a matter of my survival.

just last year my friend shot a smaller black bear. legal sized, but we gave him hell with jokes like "where is it's mama?" i think it was 90 lbs. shot it with his bow, slicktrick 4-blade broadhead. punched a hole through the engine room. double lungs, shoulderblades, full pass thru. we took the bear to the game warden to validate it. he looked at the hole, and asked us for the bloody arrow. the damage was so great, he thought we drilled it with a firearm. he said we were lucky to have found the arrow, because he would have been very suspicious. sometimes you hit bone and things get very messy. it isnt always clear.

i asked a warden about the firearm rule. he said it was about the poachers. for me, going out into the woods is a privilage. i dont go wandering about thinking it is all about me. if the rules are in place to keep some fool from shooting a deer during the bow season illegally, then i play by the rules. i have never seen a wild grizzly. i dont go after moose, salmon or caribou...yet. honestly, from what i read, bears are getting to the point that they think a rifle shot means an easy meal. the real danger is coming back for that second load of meat. i would make crazy noise coming in. plus i would bring a very fat and slow helper. someone i can outrun.

[aigel]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

It's pretty darn easy to tell the difference between a bullet wound and an arrow wound. Any fish cop that doesn't know the difference should not even be in the field. That's a pretty thin excuse, if that is what they are using.

If you hunt deep in the woods, you never bring out the whole carcass. Often all you carry out is a pile of boned out meat and a head / hide.

I can't say I am terribly worried about being attacked by wildlife while out in the CA woods.

George

[varmint]

how incredibly stupid.


every bowhunter i've ever know carried a sidearm to finish the animal.

[vash]

what?

every animal i have taken with a bow hasnt needed a finishing off shot. a bow/arrow isnt a means to stop the animal from running away just so you "put a cap in his arse".

all the bowhunters i know do it because of the challenge. shoot straight, know the vitals, make the shot, then wait for a peaceful exit for the animal. i wait 30-45 minutes before i take up the chase. everytime i go up to a dead animal it has been dead.

sorry varmit.