Audi A4 v. S4 Real World Experiences Please

[t6dpilot]

OK, so it looks like my goal of having my '96 A4 2.8 reach 300k is not going to happen. After 16 years and 214k miles of ownership, the red head has left me stranded. Just died in the middle of my morning commute. To be fair, the car is suffering from a mysterious coolant leak (according to my mech) and the engine diagnosis shows a coolant leak in #2 and #3 cylinders. But the major leak occurs on the garage floor. Put in a couple of stop leak asprins, which cured the problem for several weeks. It is back and I fear that is what caused the engine to shut down. Resurfaced heads = $3k and new engine = $5k +/-. Not sure I want to invest that in a car that is only worth $3k.

So, it looks like I may be shopping for a replacement. I actually really like my car and was hoping to keep it for many more years (it looks fantastic). If I replace it, I am thinking of sticking with the A4. I could go with a newer low mileage 2.0 or 3.2. Then again, I have always liked the S4. My self imposed budget would allow a 2005/6 S4 4.2 V8 in higher mileage. So what I would like to hear from you Audi owners are your real world experiences with these cars.

Is the 2.0 anemic?
Is the S4 4.2 a gas hog?
Is the 3.2 the best compromise?
Problems and things to look out for?
Any thing bad/good with a particular model year?

Thanks for the help.

[boba]

Hi Scott,

I have always liked the Audi products and would add to your list the 2.8 twin turbo S4.

Bob

[n8marx]

Ha. I was in a similar boat here. I had a 2001 A4 2.8 quattro. Got rid of it a while back and wanted a V8 S4. I ended up buying a 2006 A4 Avant quattro with a 2.0 turbo. I LOVE this engine. It just feels right. Not a huge amount of lag, good power everywhere. It is no V8 and will never be confused with one but it is definitely faster than the 2.8 was, no question. And I'm not even chipped.

In mixed city and highway driving I end up about 25 mpg. Try that with a 4.2 V8.

Also, to answer a question you didn't ask - the newer car is WAY better in the handling department than the 2.8 was. Feels better balanced even though it is still not a light car. Doesn't push as much in corners as the B5 chassis did.

[Tim Hancock]

Scott, I assume you have read my opinions on here in the past about the difficulties/expense of owning off warranty Audis so I'll try not to sully your thread. Obviously you like them and got decent service out of one up till now, but you might want to also consider BMW's or Mercedes.

[n8marx]

I'm also aware of Tim's Audi-related past and he has good reason to be wary. That said, I'm on my third Audi and bought all of them out of warranty. They're not the cheapest cars to run or the easiest to work on but I tried Honda and came back.

[gatotom]

My wife had a 98 A4 2.8L 5 spd Avant, constant oil leaker but ran good for 167k, tired and we traded for a 05 A4 1.8L 6 spd Avant, so far no problems, has 76k, due up is a timing belt change at 90k.

I had a 00 A4 1.8L 5 spd which had its share of gremlins but manageable. Traded for a 06 A4 2.0L 6 spd S-line. Nice car, the S-line means stiffer suspension which is most needed for this heavy car. Last month I ran a 84 911 carrera up a twisty canyon, kept up with him in the twisties but he got me on the straights.

My 2 sons each drive A4's, one is a 02 A4 3.0L 6 spd, smooth and the only thing I notice is that it uses more fuel than my 2.0L, he is probably getting about 27 mpg on the hwy and the 2.0L gets around 32, 33-34 if I am real light with the pedal.

I drive Audi's because I live in the mountains and 4 wheel Audi's imho are the best, with studless snow tires on in the winter, they go anywhere.

[rcooled]

I had a '99 A4 2.8 for several years, now have an '05 S4 and have driven many other Audis ranging from the A3 to the Q7. Both the A4 and S4 are great driver's cars with the S4 having the obvious edge in performance. The 4.2 V8's 340hp will certainly keep a smile on your face...it's silky smooth and pulls hard to 7K rpm. It has a firm ride, even when compared with the sport suspension in the A4, but it isn't harsh. The S4's brakes are MUCH better than the A4's and it's Recaro seats are really supportive. Overall, it's about as you might expect...S4 = A4 on steroids. One downside is the drive-by-wire throttle which can seem a bit slow to respond at times. Another is the gas mileage...you'll rarely see anything better than 20mpg. Although mine has been trouble free so far, the S4 can be an expensive car to repair. An aftermarket warrenty might be worth a look. Audis are not DIY friendly, as Tim Hancock will confirm, so plan on using a good indy mechanic for anything beyond oil changes and minor tune-ups.
The 2.0 turbos I've driven had adequate power but all seemed pretty rough to me. People who like to modify their cars love the 1.8 & 2.0 'cause they're easy to tweak. The 3.2 is smooth and has good power but isn't nearly as exciting as the V8.
Control arm bushings wear quickly, so check to see if they've been replaced. Some of the Xenon headlight housings have a tendency to fog up in the rain but there's an easy fix for it. Coolant leaks and faulty coil packs are reported occassionaly, so check for repair/replacement. And lastly, cars built before 10/03 seem to exhibit more powertrain issues than those built after.

[Vintage914Racer]

I do not think the 2.0t will be too anemic for you. Your current A4 has the 12v V6, which puts out 172hp and ~ 180 torque. The 2.0t puts out 200hp and 207tq. So, you will have more power than your current car and likely better fuel economy thanks to the direct injection and 6-speed (not sure if you're going auto or manual, but both come in 6 speed).

Obviously, the extra power of the 3.2 is nice and the 4.2 in the S4 is great, but you'll burn a lot more fuel in the S4. I like the 2.0t because it is a proven engine with widespread use. I had a 2006 A4 2.0tq and loved it and enjoy the engine just as much in my current A3.

[t6dpilot]

Great responses guys - thank you. Tim, I was unaware of your Audi woes. Care to point me to a thread or two? My car is slightly massaged with H&R Sport springs and Bilstein Sport shocks. It also has a polished intake manifold and throttle body for better high rev breathing. The car is setup just right and looks great if not the fastest A4 out there. I really don't want to buy another car right now - later but just not now. What I really need is a reliable good quality car for a DD. I really don't NEED the power of the S4 and have been satisfied with my little B5 A4. But, don't we all hanker for more power at some point? The 2.0 and the 3.2 for that matter, will both be huge upgrades from my current ride. Just wondering what the difference is between them from you, the owners.

Honestly, I really like my little car and am proud of the fact that I have taken such good care of it as an original owner. I recently put new tires on it and repaired a bunch of emissions stuff to the tune of $2k. About three years ago, I finally bit the bullet and fixed the A/C to the tune of about $2.5k. Basically, I fix what needs to be fixed. So if my problem is major, say $2-3k in work, is it throwing good money after bad or smarter to do that and continue running the car for years to come (than buying new)? Small investment with current car (to make sure my recent money spent isn't down the drain) or large investment for a new used car? I know, only I can answer that question and if you ask 10 people, you will get 12 different opinions.

Well, the car is at the shop - we'll see what they say.

Other cars considered are:
Volvo (everyone where I live has one, so not too interested)
VW

[Deschodt]

I was recently shopping for such animals. I ended up with a 528i, but through no fault of Audi, just a great deal.

The 2.0T is a great motor and my dealer will even chip it (reflash with REVO) under warranty and you have nearly 280 lb/ft of torque. Great engine. The 2.0 has a few issues... Some plastic bits can be improved (DV, loss of boost), and the fuel pump has an issue with the cam follower wearing out prematurely, but all fixable for relatively cheap and totally DIY. I loved that motor in my 08 GTI, wish that car was 4WD, I'd still own it ! In the A4 it's just as strong, but stay away from the CVT according to my mechanic, he's seen many costing $$$ to repaitr. Manual is OK.

A nice A4 quattro stick with 2.0T, chipped, is a heck of a fun car. Front wheel drive, not so much, but it's OK !

I test drove a 4.2 S4 and found it too nose heavy and therefore kinda numb. I did not get to test drive the new 3.0T S4, that's the one I wanted to buy, but @ $50K minimum and awful trade in for my car, I decided to keep my Cayman S and get the aforementioned 528i as a beater instead.
Audi's loss ;-) I'll grab a 2010 S4 in a couple of years when they lost $20K in value !

[fastfredracing]

I don't have a ton of experience with the v8 S4, but I will tell you, that it is by far , the most expensive, and most difficult car to work on that I have ever had the displeasure of spinning a wrench on. The only one that I service is owned by a kid who pounds the snot out of it, so it is always breaking, and the cost of repairs make my Porsches look like garden tractors. Sweet car, but I am with Tim, never would own one out of warranty , never....

[audiman08]

The 2.0 A4 and the 4.2 S4 are apples and oranges obviously. The A4 is going to be a lot easier on the wallet, in just about every way. IMHO the older 4.2 S4 is not a practical dd powertrain (especially out-of-warranty). Just my two cents...

[craigster59]

I just traded away my '06 A3 2.0T this weekend. 165k on the clock and no issues at all. It was reliable, fast and fun to drive. I had always considered getting it chipped thru APR, but it was always fast enough for me. The lack of Quattro is what made the decision to let it go. A low mileage A3 w/ Quattro and chipped might be the way to go.

[Tim Hancock]

Originally Posted by t6dpilot

Great responses guys - thank you. Tim, I was unaware of your Audi woes. Care to point me to a thread or two?

Here is my tale of Audi twin turbo ownership. YMMV, but just in case it does not, god help your wallet if you have to pay someone to work on it.

Blown coolant line.....Another reason to HATE @#$%$# Audis

FWIW, I loved the way it drove (I had an Eibach suspension kit installed in mine) and the AWD was nice in the winter, but NEVER AGAIN for me. My daughter's little VW has been more trouble than it should be also. So I doubt I will make that mistake again either.

I am sure there will be several Audi aficionados that will attempt to minimize my experience, but I have had much better luck and easier repairs with my high mileage BMW's and several foreign repair shop owners have been in agreement with me.

[KNS]

Scott,

You seem to like the car a lot. If it were me, I would take care of the engine, even it it does cost $5000 and keep driving it. Even if you only drive it five years that's about $1000 a year on a car you are already very familiar with.

On the other hand, my BMW 325 has been extremely reliable...

[t6dpilot]

Tim, thank you for the thread link. I am reading that with great interest.

Kurt, yes I do like the car a lot as it has been pretty darn reliable and not a real money pit (I think as I am not going to add up the bills - yes, I have every single one). But, I am not so in love with the car that I HAVE to get it running to keep it going. Certainly not in the vein of a classic 911.

My issue is one of economics. Do I want to send the car to grave? No. Do I want to keep driving it as it is in great shape and was paid for a loooong time ago? Yes. Do I want to reach 300k on the clock? Yes, but not with a firehose of cash keeping it going. I would prefer to start car shopping on my terms. Truth be told, I was probably going to start that process in the next couple of years, so that is why I am hesitant to pop for a huge repair bill. But... I already have a bunch in it recently, so it honestly makes the most sense. I DO NOT want to get into the may-as-wells though.

We'll see what the shop says. Oh BTW, I just had a thought. I have always wanted a 964 - this would be a perfect opportunity to get a Carrera 4.

I have also really had a hankering for a 1972 280 SE 4.5. I know, I know, not at all practical for today's DD.

[Bill Verburg]

I owned 2 S4's
2000 tt V6
2004 4.2 V8

The tt never had any issues but the horror stories from other owners at the time left my very uneasy, when warranty was up i traded for the V8, this was a true horror to own, it was in the shop at least every 6mo, the last visit they had it for 30 days. It too was traded when the warranty was up, but not for an Audi. I will never evereven consider owning one of those POS cars again.

fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

[fastfredracing]

Bill, just curious what type of problems you had with your S4. Wandering if your's had some of the same issues that I saw. What was the 30 day stay about, Timing chain guides? variable cam assemblies. intake manifold ? one whole bank missfiring?

[CurtEgerer]

Scott: as I mentioned on the phone, real S4's have 5-cylinder motors (440WHP in this particular case ). My next daily driver? Well, my '06 A4 2.0T has had boring Honda-like reliability. I need something that could leave an ear-to-ear grin 1 minute, leave me stranded for no apparent reason and without warning the next, and nickle & dime me until I come to my senses. And I'm just dumb enough to do it

[Sarc]

Originally Posted by CurtEgerer

That's hot.