Sick Sad World, talk about bad Santa

[Tobra]

Guy kills the in-laws in nasty divorce, apparently they were expecting the neighbor to be arriving dressesd as the jolly old elf, shoots little girl who answered the door in the face, talk about Merry Xmas

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/12/26/santa.shooting/index.html

[126coupe]

What a sick mother-f'er. They are still trying to find the last body

[speeder]

This story just keeps getting sicker and sicker with each update. 9 victims dead + shooter:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-santa-shooting27-2008dec27,0,7291873.story

I hate to say it but this is a classic example of a gun-control argument. Many homicidal maniacs are not "criminals" and can amass weapons, they are law-abiding shlubs right up until they go postal. All it takes is a **** ex-wife or a business dispute to turn them into Charlie Manson. I'm pro-2nd amendment but these incidents are the biggest threat to that freedom. Public opinion can swing wildly towards more laws after a highly-publicized killing spree.

[red-beard]

But if someone in the house had a firearm, might have stopped him.

[126coupe]

Originally Posted by red-beard

But if someone in the house had a firearm, might have stopped him.

I totally agree, I carry a seacamp in my pocket, but rarely, only on road trips
I also doubt I would "pack heat" on a Christmas Eve, but, with my whacked family, maybe

[Oracle]

Good that he got burned extensively.. cause he'll be eternally burning...

[aigel]

That guy would have done plenty of damage without the help of firearms. There are many deadly weapons available at the hardware store - I don't think I have to get into detail. It sounds like he used some home built flame thrower device he did not buy at the gun store ...

Maybe we should review some of the divorce laws?

George

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by red-beard

But if someone in the house had a firearm, might have stopped him.

Exactly. What a sad, horrible story. But - he would have had to have been pretty damn good, or pretty damn lucky, to have gotten inside of my home after firing a shot when first let through the front door.

I really do not want to sound callous about this, as I do really feel for the family, but come on - Voices are heard on the recording yelling, "... pleading, "Please come immediately ... he's shooting! He's shooting!" WTF??!! "Quickly" is at least several minutes. Give me a couple of guns, and several minutes in a home full of unarmed people, and guaran-frickin'-teed I could get them all. One of my favorite, somewhat macabre sayings: "call 911, and order a pizza. See which one gets there first..."

And just what the hell are two high-powered shotguns??

[speeder]

The police actually responded very quickly but nothing could have prevented this when a lunatic is hell-bent on mass murder of innocent people. i can't imagine being at a Christmas family party on X-mas eve where Uncle Ernie is walking around with a .45 on his belt incase a psycho Santa shows up.

I believe in gun ownership to protect yourself and other occupants of your house while home, but when someone gets the drop/ element of surprise on you during what is supposed to be a peaceful setting, you would be toast. This guy planned this massacre out pretty well other than the part where he burned himself with the accelerant. I spent every X-mas of my life until well into adulthood at my Grandma's house with her son, (my uncle), who was a veteran cop in the house. My parents have a Christmas caroling party every year, including this year, with the former Police Chief of Minneapolis and his wife in attendance. At either setting, if someone dressed as Santa knocked on the door and started skillfully shooting everyone in the house, he would have killed all of us. In neither situation was the cop packing or had a gun close at hand. You are living in a dream world if you think that owning a gun will protect you in any conceivable situation like this one. It's just a tragedy and shows what a determined psycho with a gun in each hand can do.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by aigel

That guy would have done plenty of damage without the help of firearms. There are many deadly weapons available at the hardware store - I don't think I have to get into detail. It sounds like he used some home built flame thrower device he did not buy at the gun store ...

Maybe we should review some of the divorce laws?

George

He could not have done this without guns. Once again, I am not anti-gun. Far from it. But guns are by far the most efficient and readily available way to kill a bunch of people. Unless you have access to some C-4 and are an expert in explosives, guns are the way to go.

[aigel]

No gun law in the world will stop a lunatic who plans a massacre in such detail from getting an effective deadly weapon.

George

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by speeder

You are living in a dream world if you think that owning a gun will protect you in any conceivable situation like this one. It's just a tragedy and shows what a determined psycho with a gun in each hand can do.

I'm sorry, but I DO carry to Christmas parties. You do not carry a pistol, especially a very small concealable one, because you think there will be a problem. It is a fire extingiusher.

Unfortunately, with a country of 300+ million, you will get a few tragedies like this. Banning guns to prevent something like this would be the same as banning alcohol or cars to prevent drunk driving. And this guy would have figured out a way to have killed her anyway.

[billyboy]

Maybe we should review some of the divorce laws?

That was my first thought, but I read that he actually came out pretty good. He got the house, she got the dog and $10k.

[livi]

I wonder what combination of personality disorder/mental disease and drugs would force a person to shoot children point blank. Particularly if the latter did not apply, this guy was a seriously mentally damaged individual.

[red-beard]

Someone had to have noticed something...

[Porsche-O-Phile]

I'm sure the enlightened brains in the CA State Assembly will get right on this and pass a law banning Santa Claus in order to prevent it from ever happening again.

Actually, it wouldn't surprise me at all. I'm sure they'll use it as more "evidence" that guns are evil and to villify gun owners.

Terrible story indeed. There are some seriously screwed up people in this world (and strangely, a disproportionately high concentration of them in/around L.A.)

RIP to the family. Burn in hell for the assailant.

[Aurel]

The irony is that his Santa suit caught fire, that is why he got burnt. He might have been able to escape to Canada if he did not dress a Santa. Sick mofo.
Then, there is this one:
http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/20081226_Phila__man_shot_because_family_talked_dur ing_movie.html

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by Aurel

The irony is that his Santa suit caught fire, that is why he got burnt. He might have been able to escape to Canada if he did not dress a Santa. Sick mofo.
Then, there is this one:
http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/20081226_Phila__man_shot_because_family_talked_dur ing_movie.html

Something to be said for natural fibers

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

I'm sure the enlightened brains in the CA State Assembly will get right on this and pass a law banning Santa Claus in order to prevent it from ever happening again.

Actually, it wouldn't surprise me at all. I'm sure they'll use it as more "evidence" that guns are evil and to villify gun owners.

Terrible story indeed. There are some seriously screwed up people in this world (and strangely, a disproportionately high concentration of them in/around L.A.)

Maybe we should ban L.A. or California instead?

[speeder]

Interesting and predictable breakdown of opinions along usual PPOT lines. The red-state types believe that the solution to this would be to have someone carrying a loaded gun at every family Christmas party. The "liberals", (me anyways), think that the solution is to choose your mates more carefully. Every time I read about some insane domestic violence incident, and they are frequent in the U.S., I think, "no way on freaking earth was this guy some cool, well-balanced individual who just turned into Scarface after being rejected."

Dollars to donuts he was an insecure, f'ed-up guy with some serious issues but maybe had a decent job and a house and a car. He paid attention to her and needed her, so that was enough for her to marry him. She had been married 3 times already. How people marry, (or even date), some of the people they do baffles me. That's what I think.

If someone showed up at any Christmas, or other family party I've ever been to with a loaded gun to "protect us" they would be thrown out on their ear and never to return. The idea of having a loaded piece on you while you hug your relatives and hold babies and children is almost as whacked-out as psycho Santa. Once again, if anyone had a loaded gun in a house full of children they would be kicked out of the family. My uncle's service weapon was locked away somewhere, I assume. (No one ever asked, it's too odd of a subject to bring up under those circumstances). The retired Police Chief of Mpls. who is my Mom/stepdad's friend most assuredly is not packing in social situations, if ever. I'd be curious to hear from actual active duty LEOs on this board whether they pack to family parties.

We have some people here who are seriously scared of life. My gun stays in my drawer at home, (live alone/no kids), and I just avoid toxic people. If my number comes up out in the world, so be it.