Back to the reload....

[red-beard]

I'm purchasing the primers, which seems to be simple enough.

Powder. It seems that I'm going to have to purchase several different powders for the different rounds.

I'll be loading

Rifle: .308, 30-06, .223, 7.62x39

Pistol: 45 ACP and probably 9mm when the price becomes stupid!

Suggestions for powder?

IMR seems to have decent prices for the 8 lb jugs, from Midway. The other brands aren't too expensive.

Suggestions? Are some really better than others?

[KevinG]

Red Beard -

It has been nearly 20 years since I have reloaded, however I do remember being in a similar situation. I was reloading for 3 rifles - 7mm Remington Mag, 30-06 and 270, as well as 3 pistols - 45ACP, 45LC and 44mag.

I went through my reloading manuals and tried to find acceptable loads (pressure, velocity) for each of the rifle calibers that used the same powder, and then tinkered with powder charges for accuracy. Worked well for hunting purposes, but I wasn't trying to put them all into the same hole. On the pistol side, I found powder to share for the 45 loads, but had to use a different one for the 44 mag.

20 years ago, I used IMR pretty exclusively for my rifles. Pistols were fed either Unique or Red Dot.

Kevin

[dhoward]

You don't buy powders based on price. The caliber, desired muzzle velocity, bullet type and weight all factor into what powder gets used.
Get a reloading manual from one of the major manufacturers, i.e. Hornady, Speer, etc. and pick a recipe from there.
When starting to reload, the last thing you want to do is go off half-cocked (heh, heh...)

[azasadny]

I'm using Unique for pistol (.45ACP and 9mm) and Hodgdon 4198 for my AR15 (.223) and I'm getting good results with those powders.

[Jeff Higgins]

Literally volumes have been written on this topic. None of the powders available to reloaders are "better" or "worse" than the others. All of the reputable brands are equal in quality.

Each manufacturer makes a broad range of powders in an effort to provide a burning rate suitable for just about any cartridge/bullet weight combination anyone is ever likely to reload. If you start to study the data in the various reloading manuals, you will begin to notice a pattern. Smaller cases with light for caliber bullets will use faster burning powders; larger cases with heavy for caliber bullets will use slower burning powders. This is still a broad generalization; any given manufacturer will indicate several of its powders for a given cartridge/bullet weight combination. The range of powders they suggest for small cartridge/light bullet will still be towards their fast end of their burning rates, and the big case/heavy bullet combinations will still be towards their slower end.

Your three .30 caliber rifles are a great example. The 7.62x39 is the smallest, and generally shoots light for caliber bullets. The .308 is a mid-sized .30 caliber, and typically uses middleweight bullets in the 150-168 grain range. The '06 has the most capacity of your three, and typically is used with heavier bullets in the 150-180 or 200 grain range. The 7.62x39 will use the fastest powder, the .30-'06 the slowest. Even if you shoot the same bullet weight in all three, say a 150 grain, you will need three different powders of three different burning rates to cover all three.

Beyond just the burning rates of various powders, there is the size and shape of their kernels. Some are long, pencil lead like "stick" powders (all of the IMR's, for example) that simply will not go through any kind of measure consistently, demanding that each charge be weighed. Others are "ball" powders (like all of the W-W's) that go through a measure like a dream. In between are the very short stick and the flake powders, any one of which may go through your measure acceptably well enough to preclude having to weigh each charge.

Any of the 4350's - IMR, Hodgen, or AA are the "classic" .30-'06 powder, and are where I would start with this caliber. They are all stick powders, however, and will not go through any kind of measure well. Every charge has to be weighed as a result. Some guys will compromise performance just a bit for a powder that will go through a measure consistently. A ball powder like W-W 760, or a very short stick powder like Reloder 19 or H4831SC will fill that bill. One or the other may be more accurate in your rifle with any given bullet weight or brand. For example, one may work well with 150 grain bullets, while another will work better with 180 grain bullets. There is no way to tell without trying them all. For what it is worth, I use IMR 4350 with 180 grain Sierras in my Model 70. My Ruger Number One likes Reloder 22 and 200 grain Noslers. Neither rifle will shoot the other rifle's load all that well.

The .308 seems to do well with Varget, Reloder 15, IMR 4064, or W-W 748. All of these are approved for use in gas operated semi-autos, if that is a consideration for you. I would start with Varget.

Not many guys I know bother to reload for the 7.62x39. It uses a .310" bullet, as opposed to the normal .308" for all other .30 calibers, so your choices are extremely limited there. Most seem to think Reloder 7 works well.

I use H4895 in my .223. Lots of folks like W-W 748 because it is a ball powder. Varget and H322 are two other very popular powders in this caliber. This one is a bit "capacity challenged", so the ball powders work especially well. My H4895 load is compressed, where you won't have to do that with H322 or W-W 748.

The all-time classic powder for the .45 ACP is Unique. I use W-W 231 with great success. A newer powder that has made a lot of headway with shooters of this caliber is Universal Clays. Any of the three will make just about any .45 auto happy. Unique will work well in your 9mm as well, but most folks prefer Blue Dot.

Speaking of the 9mm, be careful with this one. Don't reload military brass. It is far heavier than commercial brass, reducing powder capacity enough to raise pressures dangerously with published loads. All current data of which I am aware was worked up in commercial brass. That, and commercial primers won't seat firmly enough in some foreign military brass primer pockets, causing another dangerous situation. So if you have been buying military ammo in bulk, and hoarding the empties, you are going to have to resist the urge to reload it. Throw it away and get commercial brass.

Same goes for that 7.62x39. It should be obvious, but the cheap ass steel case copper washed Chinese crap is not reload-able. Even if you have brass cased military surplus stuff, the primers are crimped in and a real PIA to get out. Dump 'em and buy new commercial brass. You will be glad you did.

Anyway, there is a lot to consider with regards to powder selection. There is no "one size fits all". I've given you a few suggestions on what the reloading community has kind of settled in on for your various calibers, but sometimes even these "proven" powders might not be the best in your rifles and pistols. It's a place to start, though.

[azasadny]

Great advice here! I'm reading and learning a lot and realizing there's so much I don't know! Reloading reminds me of homebrewing beer, the more you learn, the more you realize you don't know. Humility and a desire to constantly improve really help in successful reloading. It's a great feeling to go to the range and shoot well with some ammo that you reloaded yourself, makes me want to shoot and reload some more!

[red-beard]

I'm thinking of pulling the malt mill out again, too.

[KevinG]

I'm thinking of pulling the malt mill out again, too.

If'n you like hops, I put together a killer recipe for a Black Double IPA I can send you. Don't reload while your drinking it though (~11%abv)

Kevin

[red-beard]

The highest abv I think I produced was for a Maple Imperial stout. 12.5-13...

I produce mostly IPA (Red-Beard's Ale). And that is actually where Red-Beard comes from. A buddy of mine started the Pirate theme. He had the best name for a beer:

"Black Barts Bilge swill"

[charleskieffner]

reloading is fun no doubt. and i in my past life got to know scott urschel and mike dillon personally. scott machined all of dillons parts. i being the factory sandvick rep and my local dist DOALL's salesman jim austin are all dyed in the wool shootists, and sold them all their machine tools. bazzillions of dollars worth.

just went into dillon the other day and picked up some wilson combat mags for my .45's. the place was packed with customers. hmmmm this gun fever stuff aint going away.

anyway my hunting puedner has all the reloading goodies. i bought critical dies for my fave rounds that he doesnt have. what i have and what he has pretty much covers the gamut. all i do is look at speer hornaday sierra reload manuals and as mentioned pick a RECIPE and then go from there. really have never had a problem until one day...........................

my BUDDY DECIDED TO SPRAY ALL HIS BRASS DOWN WITH WD-40!!!!!


NOT GOOD.........ACTUALLY REALLY REALLY BAD!

DEACTIVATED ALL THE PRIMERS SO NO BOOM JUST CLICK!

that lot of ammo when into the ash can.

so............NEVER USE WD-40 EVER AROUND RELOADING COMPONENTS!


anyway i solved my dilemma the other day by doing the following.

surfed net for all ammo prices i need. man shipping will kill you unless ya buy a HELL OF ALOT!
checked local places like j&g in prescott-wayyy too high prices.

ended up after 2 weeks of fricking blinding myself on the stupid computer going to:

WALLY WORLD(walmart)!!! of all places.

cleaned them out of federal .22 rds 5000
" " federal .45 230jhp 500
" " " federal .44 mag 240jhp 500rds

literally pulled up with shopping cart and off i went. 10 minutes max time. all reloadable.

next i called a 1/2 hr later cdnn in TEXAS and bought a 1000 rds federal 168 bthp match rds.
and 1000 winchester 9mm 115 fmj

4 more m-9 mags
3 more hk-94 30rd sticks german
4 ruger 10/22 rotary 10rd mags

and a host of other gizmos i cant remember. DIRT CHEAP FREE SHIPPING NO TAX!

i then called fulton armory and ordered some m1a mags got the last juans on shelf.

i then called springfield armory and got the loaded discount on some more m1a mags and other m1a goodies.

i then called hk parts in utah and ordered A FREEKING SLEW OF GIZMOS for hk 91 and hk-94 and hk usp compact 9mm. all the crap i have wanted for 25 years plus. kid in a candy store. XMAS FOR ME BIGTIME!

went on hkpro and scrounged a total of 7 hk p9s .45 mags. waiting on hk p9s .45 to show up today at local scottsadale ffl i know. wait a couple days for ffl check that im not charley manson(charley dont surf!), get that in my grubby hands tear it apart and inspect then go blast 50rds and off it goes to hk georgia for refinishing and any upgrades i can think of.

and............i had az lock and safe come over and poo can my old POS PITA dial combination on one of my safes and retrofit with new zoomy zoomy full race electronic lock mechanism and im in that sucker in about 1.2 seconds instead of fighting with goofy ass tumbler. smartest damn thing i did this year! when i walk by i open it just for drill and giggles. its SO COOL!

so i have done my part for the economy of america. i have made it strong. i have made it vibrant. i have made it glow. i am glowing knowing that if the zombees attack, i will grab my hk p9s with seven mags full of jhp rounds and run to the safe and in 1.2 seconds i will have my grubby lil hands on seriass anti zombee firepower!

all im looking for now is a good deal on .30 carbine(1000 rds) of soft points or hollow point reloadable rds.

my supply is high and my demand is low now! zombees dont like that!

[charleskieffner]

17.95 for a box of (20) federal .30 carbine soft points is best price i found at ammotogo.com. anybody find better e-me.

[red-beard]

ammunition to go is about 45 miles from me in Brenham. Of course, they aren't taking walk-ins anymore...

[charleskieffner]

my suggestion to most is to only buy what you really need out of state. unless huge order like mine where i made freight. no taxes also. but the PITA is i have to be present to SIGN FOR AMMO FROM UPS! major pain in da keester meeting up with UPS!

most ammo dealers are still filling orders from dec 19th!!!!!!!

[Jeff Higgins]

It is simply amazing how much one can save on ammo costs by rolling your own. The savings when shooting commercial jacketed bullets are significant in their own right, but imagine if the bullets were essentially free...

My actual costs for reloading something like .45 Colt are still under five cents per round. The biggest savings come from casting my own bullets from free wheel weights picked up at the local tire shops. I make my own bullet lube in bulk from readily available household items. My only real recurring costs are primers and powder.

I'll get an easy 30-40 or more reloads out of straight rifle, pistol, or revolver cases when shooting low pressure loads. I have 300 .45-70 cases that I have reloaded almost 70 times with my black powder match loads. I don't size, flare, or crimp them, so they should theoretically last forever with low pressure black powder loads. Powder cost are higher (these rounds burn a lot of black powder) and I do buy foundry quality lead alloys for match bullets, so my cost here are a bit higher. Closer to 20 cents per round.

Pretty cheap entertainment, really, if I discount my time. If I actually include my time spent over the casting pot, and the loading bench, as a part of the "entertainment", then I'm really getting a lot of bang for my buck. It's nice to have a relatively "cheap" hobby to offset my 911 addiction...

[charleskieffner]

jeff no doubt in my mind how cheap it is. man i was cleaning out one of my rattlesnake rat infested outbuildings and in a corner stashed were mega ammo boxes of empty brass.

while consuming insane quanities of beer this summer in a freeking 135 oven, i pulled all this brass out(CASES) and laid it on a werkbench i have outside. called my hunting amigo puedner over to have a few cold juans and when he got there i pulled the tarp off i had covered them with.

he liked to POO AND DIED ON THE SPOT!

.38/.357/.41/ .45/9mm/scads of .308/ scads of 30/30.

you should have seen his eyes. it was like he had hit the motherlode!

well that corner of the building is clean now and all those orphan cases are being reloaded.

when we get a stiffy to do some reloads we just come up with recipe for the load agreed on, hit dillon or a coupla other sporting goods/ammo stores, pick up primers powder, bullets and its off to the races.

one rule of thumb. one powder, one primer type, one shell type, one bullet type allowed at a time. no mix and match nothing. makes fer safe shooting and no bugging someone when dropping powder or horsing around. total controlled atmosphere. we control the horizontal and the vertical. that way no double powdering a shell.

its ridiculous what we pay to go shooting.

sure we gots to come up with the brass initially, but what the hell nothing in life is free.

right now both of us are in gun mode. until everything perfect as we want , nothing is safe from improving upon. a coupla months from now or so we will burn out and he will go back to his m3 bimmer and me to my 911.

being cyclic with our hobbies tends to not have terminal burnout on them.