Need Electrical Engineering help - Page 2

Shaun @ Tru6 · 01-11-2009, 01:58 PM

this may be good time to upgrade to a digital temp display versus a 1991 rotary dial to control temp.

Shaun @ Tru6 · 01-11-2009, 02:02 PM

Think this might work?

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/6XR91

turbo6bar · 01-11-2009, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

nothing in between the blue and white, either across the Ms or at the temp controller board.

OK, so we are on the same page:
1) relay in the socket on the temp controller
2) temperature dial set to heat
3) no voltage across blue or white, correct?

That temp controller might work, but you gotta figure out what voltage is needed to close the contactors. Some temp controllers will output 24VAC, some DC, and others, full line voltage (110-230VAC). If you're not in a rush, you can find really good buys on digital controllers from eBay.

Does the relay have any markings like voltage? What about the transformer on the temp controller board? Any markings about voltage? Does the manual mention anything about controller voltage?

turbo6bar · 01-11-2009, 02:36 PM

Also, you could bypass almost everything there with a temperature controller and 3 solid state relays (one per heater element) (about $100 total from eBay). I'd hate for you to spend that money, though, when it could be something really simple.

Shaun @ Tru6 · 01-11-2009, 02:52 PM

Just pulled it again. More weeping at the base even though it is vertically mounted.

Relay is an Aromat (now Panasonic) HL1-DC24V-H22

i found it here: http://www.onlinecomponents.net/search-results.cfm?searchtype=cont&startrow=51&prevstype=pnStart&SITE=&MFFILTER=&INSTOCKFILTER=0&SEARCHTEXT=HL&DOALL=1&MFLIST=

It's not in stock, no data sheet, but the it you go here to a similar one (not the same) it describes the relay. http://www.onlinecomponents.net/buy/PANASONIC-EW-AROMAT/HL1-H-DC24V/

this one as best I can read (white text on clear body)

15A 1/3 HP 125,250V AC
10A 30V DC
max 10 amp when used in a socket

I'm going to call the dryer mfg. tomorrow and see if they have one in stock. if not, I may have to create my own temp control (as you suggest) because these guys are very expensive in terms of replacement parts.

Each of the heating elements is $600. Elsewhere, $400, so a temp control from them may be cost prohibitive.

major issue right now is I'm getting behind in production (was supposed to have finished 250 handmade shirts this weekend...didn't even get to set up the infrastructure instead), so my hope is to get this thing working quickly and cheaply, then go back and make it better. It's an extremely simple machine, but my 1991 dryer that I paid about $1K for in a package deal goes for about $8K today, with the only difference being the controller interface, and no rust!

Shaun @ Tru6 · 01-11-2009, 03:00 PM

BTW, max temp will most likely be 400F or so. I'm tempted to steal the controller out of our heat press.

turbo6bar · 01-11-2009, 03:14 PM

OK, so it is 24VAC for the contactors... still doesn't do you much good.

Can you get a hair dryer in relay socket to dry it out totally? Shame that a $8 part may be setting you back so many hours. You can definitely update that machine with a temp controller, 24V transformer, and 1 solid state relay.

Next time, I advise that you not shower with your equipment, k?

Shaun @ Tru6 · 01-11-2009, 03:57 PM

it looks to be that the relay itself is weeping, have no idea why or how. I dream of the day I have a shower again.

Shaun @ Tru6 · 01-12-2009, 07:16 AM

hi Guys,

Talked with the dryer mfg. no go on a new relay, and since they seem to be unobtainium, they recommended a digital controller. Basically, I'd plug the white and blue wires, as well as the probe, into the digital controller, cut an opening in the face of the box, install and be done.

Problem is it's $475.

Is there another relatively plug and play solution that is less expensive?

turbo6bar · 01-12-2009, 09:56 AM

Plug-n-play and under $475? That's a tough one. You can certainly save money buying separate bits, but you'll be trading time for dollars. I'm thinking <$200 for separate temperature PID and relays, but it's not plug-n-play.

You could replace your contactors with eBay ID: 250355943670, but there are so many others that'll work just as well. Add some heatsinks to those relays.

Then, you'd need a temp controller, $30-150 (used-new), and you'd be ready to go with some wiring and testing.

Shaun @ Tru6 · 01-12-2009, 11:39 AM

A local electrical supply house recommended one of these. $282 delivered.

http://www.littletravelerusa.com/LDS765.pdf

Will it work?

turbo6bar · 01-12-2009, 12:30 PM

I think that'll do the trick. Still not quite plug-n-play. Ask the supply house if the controller will work with contactors (3 in series) that require 24V. That is the only question for me. Don't forget you also need a thermocouple.
jurgen

Shaun @ Tru6 · 01-12-2009, 12:50 PM

Thank you Jurgen! I sent them the interior pic of the box as well as the wiring diagram I posted there to confirm that it will work. I've got the probe thermocouple, is that what you mean? Would rather go for the $475 component that is a guarantee, but for $200, I'll spend a little time on this as long as it CAN work.

turbo6bar · 01-13-2009, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

I've got the probe thermocouple, is that what you mean?

Yep, that's what you need.

Too bad you couldn't get that system hobbling along for a while, so I could put together a small package to replace those guts. I think you're moving in the right direction, though.

good luck, jurgen

Shaun @ Tru6 · 01-13-2009, 06:30 PM

Thanks Jurgen and Bob, let me know if you guys have kids or grandkids and their sizes. Controller should be coming in on Thursday.

Shaun @ Tru6 · 01-17-2009, 08:27 AM

I wanted to get this up and running today and here's where I am at:

new controller

old controller

The thermocouple is obvious.

Blue wire went to N.O. on old board, so went to N.O on new RELAY 1.

Black wire went to L1 on the old board which is one terminal on the transformer, and this was bridged to C, as you can see in the pic. So I plugged this into COM on RELAY 1.

White wire went to L2, the other terminal on the transformer on the old board.

Big question: Where would the white wire go?

Second question: should I run power lines from the strip to the new controller? I would just bridge the conveyor belt motor strip terminals to the power connection on the controller.

Thoughts? Really don't want to melt $280.

SLO-BOB · 07:57 AM

Just checked the schematic. It's not polarity sensitive for AC or Dc. The label is just a "suggestion".

I'm not sure I understand your 2nd question. Do you just want to get power to the unit?

Did you get a new thermocouple with this?

PROVISOS - THIS INFORMATION IS MEANT FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY. I STRONGLY RECOMMEND THAT A LICENSED ELECTRICIAN PERFORM THIS WORK. I CAN NOT GUARANTEE THAT THE INFORMATION I HAVE GIVEN YOU IS ACCURATE FOR YOUR SPECIFIC APPLICATION, NOR DO I ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR FAILURE, CATASTROPHIC OR OTHERWISE.

Shaun @ Tru6 · 01-17-2009, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLO-BOB

Just checked the schematic. It's not polarity sensitive for AC or Dc. The label is just a "suggestion".

I'm not sure I understand your 2nd question. Do you just want to get power to the unit?

Did you get a new thermocouple with this?

Thanks Bob,

They said my existing thermocouple probe will work fine with this. Just need to plug it into the 2 farthest right hand slots in the SIGNAL area.

On getting power to it, I believe it will either run with the power when the white and black wires are connected. if not, I can just run power leads from the strip to it.

It's the white wire that I don't know what to do with.

SLO-BOB · 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

It's the white wire that I don't know what to do with.

I guess I'm unclear as to what white wire you are wondering about.

PROVISOS - THIS INFORMATION IS MEANT FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY. I STRONGLY RECOMMEND THAT A LICENSED ELECTRICIAN PERFORM THIS WORK. I CAN NOT GUARANTEE THAT THE INFORMATION I HAVE GIVEN YOU IS ACCURATE FOR YOUR SPECIFIC APPLICATION, NOR DO I ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR FAILURE, CATASTROPHIC OR OTHERWISE.

Shaun @ Tru6 · 01-17-2009, 11:43 AM

I'm sorry Bob. OK, on the original controller, there is a white wire, black wire and blue wire. The wires go from the original temp controller to the mercury contactors.

Based on markings on the old board and new board, I am fairly confident that I have connected the blue and black wires properly.

On the old board, the white wire is connected to the L2 terminal, one of the terminals on the transformer.

Problem is there is no corresponding L2 terminal on the new controller.

BTW, white is Neutral in the circuit.