Need Electrical Engineering help - Page 3

SLO-BOB · 07:56 AM

It's just your neutral for the supply voltage. It brought (presumably) 120v along with the black wire to L1 and L2. L1 is Line and L2 is neutral or white. Should be 120v. Is it? In that case the black and white go to the power terminals 1 and 2 as described on the label upper right. Polarity not an issue.

PROVISOS - THIS INFORMATION IS MEANT FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY. I STRONGLY RECOMMEND THAT A LICENSED ELECTRICIAN PERFORM THIS WORK. I CAN NOT GUARANTEE THAT THE INFORMATION I HAVE GIVEN YOU IS ACCURATE FOR YOUR SPECIFIC APPLICATION, NOR DO I ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR FAILURE, CATASTROPHIC OR OTHERWISE.

SLO-BOB · 07:56 AM

However!!!!!!! Haha, just kidding. Thought maybe you hooked it up.

But, you still have the output (blue wire) to consider. Did you get a 24v transformer?

PROVISOS - THIS INFORMATION IS MEANT FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY. I STRONGLY RECOMMEND THAT A LICENSED ELECTRICIAN PERFORM THIS WORK. I CAN NOT GUARANTEE THAT THE INFORMATION I HAVE GIVEN YOU IS ACCURATE FOR YOUR SPECIFIC APPLICATION, NOR DO I ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR FAILURE, CATASTROPHIC OR OTHERWISE.

Shaun @ Tru6 · 01-17-2009, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLO-BOB

However!!!!!!! Haha, just kidding. Thought maybe you hooked it up.

But, you still have the output (blue wire) to consider. Did you get a 24v transformer?

I need a transformer too? The control supply house didn't mention a transformer. They said this will do the trick.

OK, so you think I should connect black and white to power, and then the blue to the NO on the controller.

even if it's incorrect, I don't think that would blow it up.

I'm heat pressing labels onto shirts right now. I'll hook this up tomorrow morning and let you know if I'm still alive. there's always hope that something will go horribly wrong.

Shaun @ Tru6 · 01-17-2009, 12:44 PM

A little good news. White and black plugged into power, blue into RELAY and thermocouple plugged in, the digital display works and it goes on and off via the Heat switch as well as the main switch.

I think I have to program it now to read the thermocouple.

Thank you again for your help, you guys have certainly earned Porsche-inspired shirts when I start running them for the community (Scott approved).

turbo6bar · 01-17-2009, 04:31 PM

The blue and white wires in series on your contactors go to the COM and NO on your digital controller.

SLOBOB is right.You will need to feed your digital controller power at the 2 POWER terminals. You can use the white and black which were connected to L1 and L2 on your old controller.

I am still unsure whether your contactors want 120V or 24VAC, but if the supply house steered you right and gave you this controller, it should work.
Jurgen

SLO-BOB · 07:56 AM

Shaun, yes you have to program the process - in your case it's easy because it's just temp control.

Your controller is of the dry contact type which means that the no and nc rely on whatever power you provided to the common. There was a 24v option which you did not get. It would be more clear if I could see one of the contactors and the wiring because I thought you said it was a 24v solenoid. To me it seems as if the contactors really have a 120v solenoid because the L1 jumpered to the common on your old board. Unless that thermostat miraculously transformed 120v down to 24v your contactor is triggered by 120v.
Lets verify what kind of contactor your using. Can you post a pic?

PROVISOS - THIS INFORMATION IS MEANT FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY. I STRONGLY RECOMMEND THAT A LICENSED ELECTRICIAN PERFORM THIS WORK. I CAN NOT GUARANTEE THAT THE INFORMATION I HAVE GIVEN YOU IS ACCURATE FOR YOUR SPECIFIC APPLICATION, NOR DO I ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR FAILURE, CATASTROPHIC OR OTHERWISE.

SLO-BOB · 07:56 AM

If I am understanding what you have, the wires above (l1,l2, l3) are the power feeds. The wires labeled "Load" go to one side of each heating element. The wires labeled 120 (blu? - can't tell) are the wires coming from the no on your old t-stat. The wires labeled "neutral" are (white? can't tell) commons going to a buss or tied in somehow with the neutral - not going to old t-stat.

Is this correct?

PROVISOS - THIS INFORMATION IS MEANT FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY. I STRONGLY RECOMMEND THAT A LICENSED ELECTRICIAN PERFORM THIS WORK. I CAN NOT GUARANTEE THAT THE INFORMATION I HAVE GIVEN YOU IS ACCURATE FOR YOUR SPECIFIC APPLICATION, NOR DO I ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR FAILURE, CATASTROPHIC OR OTHERWISE.

Shaun @ Tru6 · 01-18-2009, 06:53 AM

Thank you for hanging in there with me Gentlemen!

There is 230V across the top black and bottom black wires of the contactors.

the wires go:
Top black
below that blue (your 120)
below that white (neutral)
bottom black (load)

Just as you have them Bob

Top black: fed from main power

Blue: wired from NO on old temp controller

white: fed from main power

Bottom black: to strip to heaters

Heater toggle switch on front of board:
white: L2 on old temp controller
black: L1 which is bridged to C on old temp controller

I hope this helps more than confuses.

Please let me know if I need to bridge anything on the new controller. I suspect, like the old controller, I need to bridge black power to COM on the controller.

SLO-BOB · 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

There is 230V across the top black and bottom black wires of the contactors.
.

FYI - taking readings like this confuses the matter. If the contactors were going to a motor load you would likely read zero, but because it's going through a heating element you are getting 230v. Either way, it tells me that you're contactor is off. When it's on it will read zero - that can confuse a lot of people.

Anyway, it all sounds pretty normal. You do not have 24v contactors, they are 120v.

-Jumper a wire to the "com 1" on the new controller to the black 120v power wire. I would just pigtail, which means 2 short wires, 1 going to the power and 1 the com 1, then splice via a wirenut to the main 120v black wire that has now been disconnected from the controller power.

-the blue wire goes to terminal 3 "no" on the new controller.

Should do it. Is there a manual override on the controller? I turn off the power, in your case the 230v, which should be a seperate breaker from the 120v control circuit. Is it? Sometimes it's not. Either way, try to manual override to test if the contacors are closing. They should audibly click. If 230v power is still on, after contactor "clicks", test load side by putting one test lead on the lowest terminal (indicated "load" on my drawing) and the other lead to the white wire on the contactor - should get 120v. If 230v power is off, set meter to continuity and read "l2" to "load" top to bottom on the contactor terminals - should beep or read near zero. Repeat for "l2" and "l3". All loads should read 120v if 230v (confusing I know) is on or all readings should be zero across terminals if 230v is off.

If there is no manual overide you need to program the controller and simly turn it on and set temp to high or "on'. Again, you do not need the 230v on to test the system, only the heater elements. Once you know that the controller and contactors work, the rest of the system can be addressed.

Once this is all working, you need to make sure the temp sensor is working properly. Run the machine and check temp in dryer to make sure it isn't simply turning on and staying on, heating up too much - - - FIRE.

PROVISOS - THIS INFORMATION IS MEANT FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY. I STRONGLY RECOMMEND THAT A LICENSED ELECTRICIAN PERFORM THIS WORK. I CAN NOT GUARANTEE THAT THE INFORMATION I HAVE GIVEN YOU IS ACCURATE FOR YOUR SPECIFIC APPLICATION, NOR DO I ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR FAILURE, CATASTROPHIC OR OTHERWISE.

Have a nice day

Shaun @ Tru6 · 01-18-2009, 08:49 AM

OK, here's the scoop. But first, Bob, I completely understand your provisos and think they are appropriate, thank you. I am taking all safety precautions including wearing a welding helmet and gloves when working on the panel. Of course I am turning the main breaker off when doing any work on this. The panel has a main switch and one for the heater, and am careful to throw the main, then the heat. I certainly take full responsibility for my actions working on this.

I have connected it up and the contactors buzz and the heaters heat!!!!!

Now I have to troubleshoot the controller, but that I will do with their technical support. It is flashing oPEn on the face. It is set-up to take input from the tc and all heaters are working, so I am not sure what open oPEn references, but feel confident in figuring it out with Precision Digital. My guess is the tc is bad. I did disconnect it from the controller and the same oPEn flashed.

Bob and Jurgen, be sure to send me your addresses.

Thank you Gentlemen!

turbo6bar · 01-18-2009, 09:34 AM

Glad to hear the contactors are indeed 120V. Makes me wonder why the old controller had the transformer and relay.

Bob, why do you need to pigtail from the power to the COM on the relay output? Won't the controller tie these together internally? Jurgen

ruf-porsche · ruf-porsche's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLO-BOB

provisos - this information is meant for informational purposes only. I strongly recommend that a licensed electrician perform this work. I can not guarantee that the information i have given you is accurate for your specific application, nor do i accept responsibility for failure, catastrophic or otherwise.

I think we need Dueller to give us a legal opinion on this disclaimer.

SLO-BOB · 01-18-2009, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruf-porsche

I think we need Dueller to give us a legal opinion on this disclaimer.

I'm sure it would give him a good laugh if nothing else.

SLO-BOB · 01-18-2009, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbo6bar

Glad to hear the contactors are indeed 120V. Makes me wonder why the old controller had the transformer and relay.

Bob, why do you need to pigtail from the power to the COM on the relay output? Won't the controller tie these together internally? Jurgen

The xfrm was for the relay itself I think, but not sure. Small electronics aren't my specialty. I do know that to step 120v down to 24v reliably, the xfmr would be physically bigger than the one on the old controller.

The contacts are "dry contacts". Dry contacts do not provide power, they only switch power that is provided via the common. A lot of people think the common is a neutral, but not always, like on Shawn's controller. The benefit is it's versatility. You can use the same controller for many applications.

ruf-porsche · ruf-porsche's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLO-BOB

I'm sure it would give him a good laugh if nothing else.

Yeah but we will have to listen to his rant about his wife and kids.

Shaun @ Tru6 · 01-19-2009, 05:57 AM

Thermocouple is bad. I'm finding and ordering a J tc today.

Shaun @ Tru6 · 01-21-2009, 11:05 AM

tc came into today, put it in and turned it on. Set the upper temp to 360. Climbed steadily to my upper set point of 360 and the contactors clicked off and the red"1" light for the relay went out on the display. My lower set point was 350.

Instead of shutting off the heaters and cooling to 350, it kept climbing...more than just momentum...to 425 before I shut it down. I may have programmed it wrong, but it's a simple interface.

I'm leaving for a road trip to South Carolina in an hour, won't be back until tomorrow night late. Hoping to diagnose it on Friday so I can put this thing to bed and start getting some shirts done!

Shaun @ Tru6 · 01-30-2009, 08:30 AM

Kroggers · Kroggers's Garage

Is that a good picture? Is it working 100% now my friend?

Shaun @ Tru6 · 01-30-2009, 10:14 AM

it is working 100%, yes Pål. I hand stamped an Urban Dino last night and it cured beautiful running through the bed. I'm very close to being in business. Just now put a new rubber blanket on the vacuum table and ordered a new metal halide bulb for the exposure unit.

Monday/Tuesday I've got to get supplies and then start printing.

Please feel free to bid on anything to help the cause.

http://motors.search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZrsQ5f61