Thinking of buying some new welding equipment, need input

[Zeke]

The old school guys are still arguing whether Miller or (the dark side) Lincoln are the best. Meanwhile ESAB and Hobart are scratching at the door. Well, they've pretty much clawed clean through the door. Then there's Thermal Arc, or Thermadyne, which is a pretty big conglomerate and a pioneer in the inverter. Working down the line one finds more specialized companies. Then, you get to the imports. My personal feeling is that there aren't too many choices that don't build at least part of the equipment overseas. Think China here.

OK, look at China stuff, the list seems to be in the dozens. I've spent the better part of a month trying to decipher what's what. I've joined and read forum posts for hours on end. Basically what I read is rather biased, even to a political POV. I don't want or need some pipeline welder in TX telling me that Lincoln is the only way to go. Might be if I wanted a truck mounted, gas powered monster to weld at 400 amps.

BTW, I plan on doing cars (as I have been for awhile now) and maybe something on the order of some specialty products for our cars. You might remember my "R" hinge deal. So TIG is a target.

Down to business, what do you have in your factory, on your farm, in your shop, at home or whatever and why? I'll need a better MIG too.

[Tim Hancock]

Milt, I have about a ten year old Miller Econotig. I am happy with it, as I can tig weld aluminum with AC and of course steel with the DC output. It also came with a stick eectrode holder. It serves me well with odd projects, but the newer inverter welders are pretty slick. IIRC, the inverter welders do not weld aluminum but are awesome for thin steel. For reference, my Econotig does an awesome job on .035" thick steel chrome moly (4130 aircraft steel), but once you get down to .025" thick steel, if gets pretty dicey..... I get by with a few tricks I have picked up, but it is not ideal compared to the newer invertors that are capable of welding at a lower current.

I have used mine to weld thin auto sheet metal, but it would be very difficult to do without paying your dues with lots of practice.

If I was in your shoes, I would not worry about whether the welder you end up with is a Miller, Lincoln, Esab or Hobart. All four make a proven product. You simply need to decide what type and thickness of metal you will need to weld then pick an appropriate sized machine to do the job.

[red-beard]

Subscribed. I'l looking possibly into a super cheap MIG wire feed welder. I'm also looking to possibly a one sided spot welder or a stich welder.

[TimT]

Econotig is a good machine... I have one.. Something to think an all in one... like a Miller Shopmate...GTAW, GMAW, SMAW ( TIG ,MIG, STICK) or an XMT...

A XMT will set you back 5 large... it comes pretty complete...

As mentioned above...try and figure out what you will be making sparks on... and get to something a little better...

Id sell my econotig, and move up the food chain... but it not a tool I use every day..

[Weaver]

The team I work for is sponsored by Lincoln, so i get a pretty good discount on anything smaller than a 475 if I want. I've purchased two Millers in the past 15 years. So basically I weld at work with a Lincoln, but I tig at home by choice with a Miller.

[TimT]

Subscribed. I'l looking possibly into a super cheap MIG wire feed welder. I'm also looking to possibly a one sided spot welder or a stich welder.

That little toy one side spot welder Eastwood sells, works... kind of.. It uses carbon rods that you need to basically drag and strike your arc.. not so easy with that tool..

If you need to one side spot weld, why not use a punch on the outer most ply.. then rosette weld the "spot" It looks quite like spot weld when under seam sealer.

Also I have a cheap Northern Hydraulic or Harbor Freight? MIG welder I bought almost 30 years ago.... It is a 120V unit...

I carry it in my trailer for track side welding and repair... It still works after all these years!!

I think Harbor Freight re-badged it as "Clarke" a few years ago... not to sure on that

[MT930]

Originally Posted by Tim Hancock

Milt, I have about a ten year old Miller Econotig. I am happy with it, as I can tig weld aluminum with AC and of course steel with the DC output. It also came with a stick eectrode holder. It serves me well with odd projects, but the newer inverter welders are pretty slick. IIRC, the inverter welders do not weld aluminum but are awesome for thin steel. For reference, my Econotig does an awesome job on .035" thick steel chrome moly (4130 aircraft steel), but once you get down to .025" thick steel, if gets pretty dicey..... I get by with a few tricks I have picked up, but it is not ideal compared to the newer invertors that are capable of welding at a lower current.

I have used mine to weld thin auto sheet metal, but it would be very difficult to do without paying your dues with lots of practice.

If I was in your shoes, I would not worry about whether the welder you end up with is a Miller, Lincoln, Esab or Hobart. All four make a proven product. You simply need to decide what type and thickness of metal you will need to weld then pick an appropriate sized machine to do the job.

All good products and manufacturing quality. I am a Miller guy, however the Lincoln products are very good and have used them several times I would be happy to own them also. Hobart is Ok they are owned by Miller their quality is not up to Miller however their costs are less. Esab is professional stuff you can't go wrong. I would steer clear of the off shore stuff if you plan to make money with your gear, the service and support of the few named above are very good. That is critical if some thing goes down. I had a Miller Trailblazer develop a idle problem it was shipped 300 Miles and repaired in 2 days no charge after warrenty was up, the welding supply store was top notch. Thats not going to happen with ching chong brand.
for Plasma cutting go Thermal Dynamics or Hyprotherm only, trust me on this I did extensive reasearch to find the best tool.

[porsche4life]

We have a miller mig that is close to 30yrs old. Welds like a champ every single time. New stuff may not be as tuff but I have been around a few new miller migs and the seem really nice. We also have miller bobcat arc/generator. It never fails either. As you can tell we are a little biased.

[Rob Channell]

A local club member and Porsche CIS guru bought a Harbor Freight TIG and had trouble welding with it. He just could not get the settings and his motion right to make it work. He was a beginner but was taking a class and is very methodical in his approach and practice.

He then bought a Miller Dynasty 200DX TIG machine and his welds got much better and easier to make. I have heard the comments that this machine makes an average welder look good and a good welder look great.

I picked up an old Econotig from another local fellow that was replacing it with a Dynasty 200DX as well. He needed it because he was welding together thin sheet metal after rolling forms on one of the English Wheels that he sells. http://www.imperialwheelingmachines.com/index.html
He's using it to weld together the pieces for Monique, the aluminum woman. http://www.metalmeet.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=19407&size=big
The Econotig was difficult to keep from burning through in the thin spots as the thickness of the metal varies a good bit after the English Wheeling manipulation. The Dynasty had a pulsing function to enable very small amperages and made it easier.

My welding is poor at best but I can stick two pieces of metal together on occasion. I am sure more practice would help. If I ever run across a good deal on a used Dynasty I may pick it up and sell the Econotig.

Some specs:
Econotig
150A at 20% duty cycle,
Amperage range 20-160A,
Weight 140lbs

Dynasty 200DX
200A at 20% duty cycle
Amperage range 5-200A AC and 1-200A DC, Max of only 150A using 110VAC input
Weight 45lbs

The only downside is the cost. The Econotig lists for under $2000 and the Dynasty 200DX is over $3600.

The new Miller Diversion 165 might be nice but I've heard nothing about it.
Diversion 165
150A at 20% duty cycle
10-165A operating range
Weight 50lb
230VAC operation only (no 110V)
list price just over $1600

Good luck and let us know which one you pick and how well it works.

[myamoto1]

I've got an ESAB 250 MIG and love it. Makes me look like a rockstar when I weld. I can get an aluminium gun for it as well, if I get into aluminium. It can weld 1/2" in a single pass, not that I have the skill to pull it off, but great for the "Hank Hill" braggin' w/ the boys.

However, if you want the capability to do both MIG and TIG, I've heard good thing about the higher end Panasonic units. They run a little less than the ESAB, but I chose the ESAB on a recomendation. I asked a friend who is a professional fabricator what was his "dream machine" and he said the ESAB 250. He got it using his discount, which brought it down to the same cost as the Panny. This was all about 7 years ago. Not sure what the going rates are these days or if Panny is still as good as they used to be.

[kycarguy 935]

We have about 45 Lincoln machines in the TIG class I am taking. They seem to take a beating from some of the students. I will probably buy a Lincoln after the class is finished since I am getting use to using it.

I have a non Lincoln/Miller MIG and will probably keep it around as a back up.

[Zeke]

Thanks, all. I'm surprised no one has gotten one of the Chinese units, at least to try.

Or maybe no one wants to admit to it.

James, I see the 110v MIGs all the time. They do good on light stuff up to 1/4" And when you say stitch, I think that's what you do with the MIG. Short bursts "stitched" together.

[turbo6bar]

My brother bought the Thermal Arc TIG machine. At that time (3-4 years ago), it was praised on welding forums. I think the equivalent machine today is the 185. He took welding classes and told the instructors he wanted to skip stick and MIG welding and practice TIG only. He got a lot of hours in on TIG and can do anything he wants, but still curses thin aluminum.

For an often-used machine, it's hard to argue against the red and blue machines. We don't need TIG regularly and the inverter technology appeals to tech heads. That plus price made the Thermal Arc inverter box a good choice. No regrets there.
jurgen

[Zeke]

I think I'm going to hold off a bit. Lots of used stuff coming on the market every day.

[mb911]

Milt,

In the midwest ESAB is really a nobody the only contenders are miller and lincoln . I persoanlly have a 185 ESAB TIG at home I bought for a song as a demo for prototyping at home. its wonderful but not as nice as the lincoln v-205T that is comparable that I teach with at school (smallest unit we have but comparable). The esab tends to have lazy starts where as the squarwave v-205t starts perfect everytime. now if you compare to a dynasty 200 (miller) they are very nice but have had major PC board issues over the past years since the really the buyout from ITT. Now the hobarts are made at the same factory as Miller so keep that in mind. I have always been a miller fan but right now when we get equipment it is only lincoln around here and miller is based 1.5 hours north of me so that says allot. Remember we abuse our equipment more so then any shop as we are teaching off of them and things get hooked up wrong by students etc.

Now my TIG anology rings true on MIG, and Stick units as well.

I do not care much for the new comers that really should stick to plasma cutting and welding but I also have limited experience with them.. Not sure if that helps much but I am happy to expand

[vmisquez]

I purchased a Miller 250 DX from craigslister about 5 years ago and took the adult school welding classes. There an 80 year old guy showed me how to weld magnesium. I'm very happy with the Miller unit and it welds much better than the Lincoln units at the school.

[mb911]

Originally Posted by vmisquez

I purchased a Miller 250 DX from craigslister about 5 years ago and took the adult school welding classes. There an 80 year old guy showed me how to weld magnesium. I'm very happy with the Miller unit and it welds much better than the Lincoln units at the school.

those are the old school units though not the pc overiden units of today

[myamoto1]

milt - In my experience, stitch welding is typically in reference to your standard old buzz box (stick welder). The first unit I ever had was a tiny buzz box that had an "automatic" stitch lead. It's been a long time, but I think it vibrated the welding rod up and down, to help you maintain an arc and create that "stacked dimes" look on your welds. I've seen the term used a few times in reference to MIG welding, but I'd consider that more of a drag or pull weld.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by myamoto1

milt - In my experience, stitch welding is typically in reference to your standard old buzz box (stick welder). The first unit I ever had was a tiny buzz box that had an "automatic" stitch lead. It's been a long time, but I think it vibrated the welding rod up and down, to help you maintain an arc and create that "stacked dimes" look on your welds. I've seen the term used a few times in reference to MIG welding, but I'd consider that more of a drag or pull weld.

I spent some considerable Google time looking up "stitch welding." I don't think there's one simple definition. What I can say is that it involves a lot of cycles and the equipment better be rated for that many starts and stops each minute. To me, that kind of welding would affect the duty cycle more than a continuous weld.

The stack of dimes is hand control, along with pulsing (if available) or modulating a TIG foot pedal. I can stack the dimes in all four processes, but not as good as professional every day welders. There is a place for a real smooth bead, too. Ror instance, on the GT flares I am presently installing on a 914, I want smooth, flat welds. If they were to stay exposed, then some art is in order. Doesn't necessarily make a better weld that I know of.

[mb911]

Originally Posted by myamoto1

milt - In my experience, stitch welding is typically in reference to your standard old buzz box (stick welder). The first unit I ever had was a tiny buzz box that had an "automatic" stitch lead. It's been a long time, but I think it vibrated the welding rod up and down, to help you maintain an arc and create that "stacked dimes" look on your welds. I've seen the term used a few times in reference to MIG welding, but I'd consider that more of a drag or pull weld.

Stich welding is much the same as L-P but it is primarly used to control warpage and keep costs and time within check when producing products.. also a pull/drag method is typically not used in production applications most items less the piping industry uses push for its more defined c /dime shape


Milt Does that help at all? Let me know if I can help any further happy to help you out if I can