Help with local garage

imaircooled · 02-10-2009, 01:06 PM

Ok, here's the story. I took one of my cars to a local garage that I use. I've always had good service. They always get to my cars quickly and do pretty good work. But, tomorrow will be 4 weeks that they've had my car. The car needs a fuel pump so they replaced the pump and tested it and it started hesitating again. The old pump was tested at 38 psi when it needed 58 psi. So they had a hard time finding what else was wrong with the car. 4 weeks! So I called and called and called and called. Not once did they ever call me. They told me they were talking with Toyota to find out the problem. They finally were told that it may be the Mass Air Flow Sensor. That was Friday night that I called them and learned about the sensor. The owner said he would install the sensor on Saturday and would call me that day either way if it worked or not. No call. So Monday I called and they had it finished but wanted to test it in the morning in a cold start condition. What's another day when it's been almost 4 weeks. So today they call.....first time they called me....and said that it tested fine and it's ready. $1,200. Which I find out is the going rate for the pump, sensor and a few other little odds and ends plus labor. I don't mind the price because it seems fair compared to dealer and another garage's estimate. What frustrates me is that it took almost 4 weeks. What can I do? Can I ask them to supplement the time it took by taking some off the price? What do you guys think? They promised to call a few times and never did. Is there anything I can do?
Sorry for the long story.
Thanks again,

Chris

stomachmonkey · 02-10-2009, 01:22 PM

Remind them of the years of good service you enjoyed and your loyalty as a customer and how often you refereed work to them.

Express your frustration and disappointment with their lack of communication.

See what the owner says.

If you get no love tell em it's been nice but maybe it's time to move on.

fastfredracing · 02-10-2009, 02:40 PM

I understand your frustration, 4 weeks is a long time. And I dont want you to think that I am taking the shops side . But...
As a shop owner/mechanic myself, justs wanted to give you my two cents. Every once in a while, a stumper rolls in the shop, and gobbles up hours and hours of my time, and sometimes at the end of the day after spending 8 hours pulling out my hair, scanning, checking sensors, measuring fuel pressure etc..., I still have no idea what is wrong. Sometimes I have to walk away for a day or so , and do some research. Or come back to it when my head is fresh. I wll usually put 3-5 hours in one of these stumpers, before I call the customer, and explain that I am going to need a whole bunch more time The shop probably also had other jobs coming in as well, and cant always put a tech on your car for the whole day. And then after I think I have figured out the problem, I will somtimes have to wait a couple days for parts.. Every once in a while what will come in as a simple job ends up being a giant time suck. They probably also have a bunch of diagnostic time in it that they cant bill you for. and have probably lost their ass on this job. Although , I could be wrong, they may have been leaning on your fender drinking beer. ALso , I hate to call customers before I have figured out what is wrong. After I have beat my head against your car all damn day , I am frustrated, and a little pissed off, the last thing I want to do is call you and say " I have no idea what is wrong with your car", of course though ,there should have been some communication with you to at least keep you posted Rarely does a job sit at my place for a month, but I recently waited over a month for some Hydrualic lines for a BMW, and the customer liked to call me every day to check on the status. I also recently had a 914 that would intermittently cut out, and that took me almost a month and a half to figure out( between other jobs of course)
If you have had good luck with these guys in the past, maybe talk to them, and see what the problem was, and if they were genuinely having a real hard time figuring out your car, maybe you want to give them antother chance. It is hard to find a good wrench. There are a lot of great independent shops out there, but there are also a bunch of hacks out there as well. Hey best of luck , hope you get your car back running. Just wanted to give you the other side of the story before you go in and rip their heads off.

on2wheels52 · on2wheels52's Garage

I don't miss being a mechanic very much. fastfredracing dredged up some memories I had forgotten. I'd hate to be crawling under cars at 56.
Jim

9dreizig · 02-10-2009, 03:18 PM

They probably lost money on the deal.. You're right no excuse for not calling.. part of good customer service is calling just to say "no news".. I had the same thing with my MAF on my Audi,, very frustrating

imaircooled · 02-10-2009, 04:14 PM

Fast Fred,
I was hoping some shop owners would reply. It's good to hear that side too. I'm not one to rip anyone's head off. I like to talk about it first. I do want to stay with them because overall it seems to be a good garage.

Stomach Monkey,
That's good advice. Kind of what I was thinking. I'll see what he says.

Sorry Jim.

9dreizig,
I really just wanted a call a couple times a week so I don't feel forgotten. Yes, frustrating.

Thanks guys. That helps. Anyone else?
Chris

Bill Douglas · 02-10-2009, 11:20 PM

You shouldn't have to pay for them "not knowing what they are doing". If you took it to Toyota they would have pluged the right diagnostics tool into it and found out exactly what the problem is and fixed it in a couple of hours. This place of amatures should only be paid what Toyota would have charged. If they are too mean to buy the right diagnostic equipment that's their problem, not yours.

Don't pay more Toyota would have payed, and if tey don't accept this take it to the small claims court with a quote from Toyota.

Rick V · 02-11-2009, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

You shouldn't have to pay for them "not knowing what they are doing". If you took it to Toyota they would have pluged the right diagnostics tool into it and found out exactly what the problem is and fixed it in a couple of hours. This place of amatures should only be paid what Toyota would have charged. If they are too mean to buy the right diagnostic equipment that's their problem, not yours.

Don't pay more Toyota would have payed, and if tey don't accept this take it to the small claims court with a quote from Toyota.

Ummmmmmmmmmmm Yeah. NOT!
I work at a dealership, and let me tell ya it ain't plug and play, and the indi shops have access to the same info on cars once they are about 5 years old. (the cars that is)
I have one sitting on my rack right now, was supposed to be simple, owner replaced the cylinder head, now it won't start. Yup I work at the dealer, yup I gots me the patches down to the floor, yup I have the hottest scan tool for my brand, yup I spent 3 days just to find out that there were 4 separate issues with the car. Oh but wait, I am manufacturer trained, with the manufacturer supplied diagnostic scan tool, why didn't I just Plugged it right in and had it fixed in 5 mins. Hmmmmmmmm.
Bill it isn't as simple as you think, and the misconception of the scanner telling the tech exactly what is wrong is so far from the mark it isn't funny.
Now not hearing from the shop for a month is dead wrong, but a $1,200 bill for a MAF and fuel pump replacement is 2 hours diag. time and the replacement of the parts. That shop lost it's ass. Please keep that in mind while you question them about the service practices.

imaircooled · 02-11-2009, 04:19 AM

Rick,
I did keep that in mind. Like I said their pricing is along the lines of a separate dealer and another garage's estimate. It really isn't the price it's their lack of communication and the pain in the rear of not having a car for a month.

I actually called them last night and the owner said that he would look at the invoice and give me a call. So I should be getting a call today. It looks like they will work with me. We'll see what he comes up with.

Chris

fastfredracing · 02-11-2009, 05:23 AM

Yeah ,I have the latest and greatest scan tool, diagnostic equipment as well, and it definately is a misconception that you just plug in , the scanner tells you what is wrong, and you replace the part , done. You can access all of the data, and codes in a vehicle, but is still up to the tech to analyze that data, and come up with a conclusion from there. There are a lot things that can go wrong, that will not set a code, or all data will appear normal, and that where is a sharp tech, has to put his nose to the grindstone, and figure it out old school, which usuallly involves hours of individual component testing, which can be a real pia. Sometimes it may take me an hour just to find out what voltaged I am looking for and where I am looking for it at. and most fo the time some dissasembly is required just to get access to a component for testing. As stated above, even the dealers get stumped. I have fixed cars that the dealer couldnt/wouldnt repair on more than one occasion. The dealer does have an advantage in that they have access to all factory data, factory tech lines, and the fact that they work on the same make every day, and usually the problem has been throught the shop before
We get a bad rap sometimes , and lapbeled as incomponent, but this job is very technical these days, and by no means easy. I am sure the guy working on your car wants to get it fixed asap, as that is how he gets paid. The thing that sucks about this buisness, is that usually the tougher the diagnosis, the less money we make, we end up putting in a bunch of hours that we can not realistically bill for. and having one bastard car hold you up for a week is a real drag

john walker's workshop · 02-11-2009, 06:01 AM

that's gospel.

ruf-porsche · ruf-porsche's Garage

4 weeks , that's nuthing. How about 1 year and 8 months? Our 50 inch plasma display went on the fritz. Called a Home Theatre specialist and they came and picked it up. I usedd them before and they were quick with the previous repairs. Anyway the display been at their shop since June of 2007. I miss two super bowls all ready.

stomachmonkey · 02-11-2009, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

You shouldn't have to pay for them "not knowing what they are doing". If you took it to Toyota they would have pluged the right diagnostics tool into it and found out exactly what the problem is and fixed it in a couple of hours. This place of amatures should only be paid what Toyota would have charged. If they are too mean to buy the right diagnostic equipment that's their problem, not yours.

Don't pay more Toyota would have payed, and if tey don't accept this take it to the small claims court with a quote from Toyota.

Not really, my brother runs service for the largest Toyota dealer in S. FL.

He's one of Toyota's top 10 guys nationally and is on the board that manages the training program for new techs.

Even he gets stumped sometimes.

EX, he had a car that kept coming back for weird electrical problems. As usual the car never acted up when in their shop.

After some time he noticed a pattern, each visit was preceded by rainy days.

He had customer bring the car in and they soaked it.

Turned out to be a moisture problem.

Bill Douglas · 02-11-2009, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick V

I have one sitting on my rack right now, was supposed to be simple, owner replaced the cylinder head, now it won't start. Yup I work at the dealer, yup I gots me the patches down to the floor, yup I have the hottest scan tool for my brand, yup I spent 3 days just to find out that there were 4 separate issues with the car. Oh but wait, I am manufacturer trained, with the manufacturer supplied diagnostic scan tool, why didn't I just Plugged it right in and had it fixed in 5 mins. Hmmmmmmmm.

I quite agree in this situation, as in the owner replaced the cylinder head and probably messed up the valve timing. But I'm talking about the problem we are discussing here, the MAF and fuel pump. Two hours work.

Rick V · 02-12-2009, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

I quite agree in this situation, as in the owner replaced the cylinder head and probably messed up the valve timing. But I'm talking about the problem we are discussing here, the MAF and fuel pump. Two hours work.

Again it isn't plug and play. P0171 on a Toyota truck in usually a Maf code, interesting since the code by the numbers is a lean condition, as related to the 02 sensors. The maf doesn't even show in the situation. A no code issue but a running problem can be a slew of issues that can be determined by millivolts. It does suck to have the vehicle down for so long and to have to have it looked at twice for the same issue, but it is the nature of the game.
And to be honest if it takes a tech 2 hours to replace the maf and fuel pump on a Toyota, he is either so slow he will starve to death or he is just goofing off at work.