Throwing kids out, how's it work?

[masraum]

OK, I've got a 23 yo stepdaughter that's ultra responsible, and a 25yo stepson who is not. He's had various problems over the years. He's been a liar since the 7th grade. At some point within a couple of years of that he must have started on drugs etc... I know there's been pot and some harder stuff, but I think 95% of the time he does quantities of cold medicine. We sent him to his father's about a year after graduation when he screwed up his second semester of Jr College. We thought that a change of location and people might help, but it didn't and his father told him that he had to leave within a year. Just before he left he wrecked the vehicle he'd taken with him and had a DUI associated with the wreck. We had him here for a short time (couple of weeks) before he went to live with a girl he'd met on the internet. They were friends and ultimately that didn't work.

He'd supposedly been clean (mostly because she lived too far from any place for him to get stuff, I think) He was there almost a year. We let him come back to try again. We are usually against medicating things, but he'd had so many problems that we figured it might help and let him go to a shrink and get some pills. We've been monitoring his pills. They seemed to help and he's held down a job now for a while (8-10 months, his usual is no more than 3 months). He took a class at the Jr College over the X-mas break and got an A, and is getting A's in the classes that he's signed up for now.

In the past and possibly recently, he's also been known to shoplift liquor if he doesn't have money to buy it. He has panic attacks and seems to not be able to help himself, he has to get something to dull his brain. He ran out of pills about a week before his most recent appointment (a week or two ago) to get new meds and at the same time had 5 days off in a row from work (idle hands....) He fell off of the wagon. He's gotten back on the meds, but hasn't gotten back on the wagon I found a bottle of vodka and a couple of small flask size bottles of Jim Beam, that was last week. Today, we found a small empty flask size of Jim Beam, an empty bottle of wine, and two empty cold medicine bottles in his room today when we got home. I think that those are from today and yesterday.

We're REALLY fed up with this and have given him many chances. He's 25. We're about ready to give the heave ho, but that's scary. We don't want him to be dead in a month or 6 months. That would devastate my wife, and I wouldn't be happy about it.

I know that many of you had to leave at 18, and that many of you have thrown kids out after 18. How's that work. He doesn't have a license or a car, and there's not really any mass transit in Houston or our suburb. If I could put him into the military, I would, but I'm not sure that would help these days with stress cards and the wussification and all.

We're at our wit's end. We've tried everything that we can think of, and it's not worked. The psych drugs seemed to help for a while, but they aren't the panacea that we'd have liked.

There are times that I'd like to put him in a hole myself. At this point, I don't even really like him as a person. He's not all bad, when he's sober. He always calls my mom to thank her for gifts. He's very sweet. But he can also be a real ass, and I'm really tired of this crap and what it does to my wife and myself.

Any thoughts/advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[Arizona_928]

moocher.. do tough love

[stomachmonkey]

You just described one of my oldest friends.

Have no answer for you.

I do wish you luck and hope you can find a way to "save" him.

Where he's headed ain't pretty.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Give him $500 and tell him he's on his own. He'll find his own bottom soon enough.

[carnutzzz]

Sounds like someone with potential personality disorders.

Make sure that if he has such a disorder, he does not touch cocaine. That drug will trigger a month worth of panic attacks and bad decision making.

By 25, there is something going on here.

I would give him 2 options:

1. Join the military and use the house as "home base" when on leave.
2. Get out and good luck.

Anything else seems like enabling. I could see if he was 19 and having trouble, but 25? Way past time to man-up and start feeling the effects of bad decisons.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by carnutzzz

Sounds like someone with potential personality disorders.

Make sure that if he has such a disorder, he does not touch cocaine.

I think he did a bit of coke back when he was 18. I'm 99% certain that he's not doing it now. Like I said, he get the store brand "robitussin".

Yes, I think he does have psychological issues which is why we went with the psych meds. And he's been the most stable he's been in years since he came back and got on them, until the last 2 weeks or so. I think he's fallen off a couple of times in that time, but only for a day or two. This has been several times over the last 2 weeks now.

I knew when we brought him back that the road to recovery wouldn't be smooth and we'd have these little bumps, but we've been bitten so many times, that it's hard to not want to throw in the towel.

Tough love is much easier to say than to do.

[DanielDudley]

You need to go to Al Anon. The problem you are having is that you think you are helping. You are not. You said it yourself, you just don't want to feel bad. The situation is counter intuitive. Helping in this case is making the person deal with their own problems. Yeah, he could die. He could also die in a bed in your house, in a pool of his own vomit. It happens. He could also score some really good stuff and OD. That happened to a guy I used to know, in his parent's house. He wasn't yet 30.

BTW, the best way to throw someone out is to grab them by the belt and the collar. Try not to hit the door jamb with his head.


Just so you know, I fired the guy who was my best man. I told him I wasn't paying for his habit, and I wasn't going to watch him die. He called me a couple of years later to thank me. He seemed to think it turned his life around.

Sometimes a wake up call is like a slap. Go to Al Anon. You need to find out what you are dealing with, and how to deal with it.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by DanielDudley

You need to go to Al Anon. The problem you are having is that you think you are helping. You are not. You said it yourself, you just don't want to feel bad. The situation is counter intuitive. Helping in this case is making the person deal with their own problems. Yeah, he could die. He could also die in a bed in your house, in a pool of his own vomit. It happens. He could also score some really good stuff and OD. That happened to a guy I used to know, in his parent's house. He wasn't yet 30.

BTW, the best way to throw someone out is to grab them by the belt and the collar. Try not to hit the door jamb with his head.


Just so you know, I fired the guy who was my best man. I told him I wasn't paying for his habit, and I wasn't going to watch him die. He called me a couple of years later to thank me. He seemed to think it turned his life around.

Sometimes a wake up call is like a slap. Go to Al Anon. You need to find out what you are dealing with, and how to deal with it.

Yeah, I'm at the point where I believe that nothing we do is helping. I've assumed that he needed the kick in the ass to get turned around. I'd hoped that he'd experienced that, but maybe not.

"Try not to hit the door jamb with his head."

Do I have to?

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

I do wish you luck and hope you can find a way to "save" him.

Where he's headed ain't pretty.

I wish you luck too Steve, but imo you CAN'T "save" him...only he can do that. At 25 and still living with you, despite your good intentions, you have assisted him down this path. Tough love...that's why it's called TOUGH . I don't have kids, but have seen a lot over the years...be well and I hope for the best for your family.

[Rikao4]

along the lines of DD..
he was truly my best friend,
fired him,enrolled him into rehab..
buried him..
doubt he would make it thru basic trng.
if he survives..it will be a lifelong battle..
good luck..

Rika

[onlycafe]

send him to new orleans to help other people rebuild their homes. might help him see the light. and god forbid, if he kicks off as a result of substance abuse, at least it won't be at your place.

[Tishabet]

Originally Posted by carnutzzz

I would give him 2 options:

1. Join the military and use the house as "home base" when on leave.
2. Get out and good luck.

Anything else seems like enabling. I could see if he was 19 and having trouble, but 25? Way past time to man-up and start feeling the effects of bad decisons.

+1, to the curb.

[Dueller]

Steve...sorry to hear you're going thru this. Sounds like he started "Robo tripping" at a young age. Increasingly common in teens. Google it. Obviously he has substance abuse problems. Sounds like adictions coupled with affective and/or personality disorders.

Afraid its beyond the realm of a chat forum. He and the family need professional help to get thru this. Al Anon may be a good place to start for the family.

Sorry.

[BRPORSCHE]

send him offshore. Pllenty of companies are hiring for the rigs. Look into weatherford labs and core labs.

[legion]

My parents simply made living under their roof so unbearable, that I left as soon as I could.

Some pointers:

Constantly change the house rules so that he has no reasonable chance of complying with them.

Lock him out of the house for small infractions when he leaves.

Tell him that none of this would be happening if he just followed the rules (see above) and that it is his fault for not following them.

[Racerbvd]

Grab him by the back of the neck & walk him out the door.

When I was a senior in high school, my mother went to TX. to take care of her father & his wife, my father had gone back to sea. So, my father comes back from a sea, my older step sister of course has a few projects for him at her house, feeds him plenty to drink. Well, my dad always told me that when I was 18, if he ever thought that I was ***** up, he would take me outside & beat the crap out of me (not in those words). Now, my dad spent his entire adult career after W.W.II in a union, retiring as the agent for the SE, born & raised in Brooklyn, depression era, went back to sea at age 60 as a Merchant seaman, so he was more than able to back up any threat that he made
Well after a few drinks thanks to my evil step sister, he checked my tool box for a few tools he needed (these were tools I bought with money I earned doing odd jobs) and got pissed that they were at my Aunts house (I blew the rear end out of my Datsun pick up & fixed it at a garage my Aunt had) and he couldn't reach them.

Well, I could tell that he was drunk, and & pissed off (my older brother always screwed up, tossed away a Football scholarship,smart, talented, everything that I wasn't, plus, he kept getting arrested (something I never did), so every time he did, I paid for it. This time, I was over 18, my dad was pissed (even though I didn't do anything) so I called a buddy, we loaded everything I owned into mine & his trucks. The very first thing my dad did was changed the locks in the house I grew up in, 2nd was call my mother & tell her that I showed him that I was a man & left home and if he caught me there, he would have me arrested for trespassing (I told you I grew up with tough love) as I was still in high school right across the street from the house I grew up in. So, at 25, show him the door. If I could make it, and 10 years later my daD finially talked to me again, there is no reason that he can't go out & make something of himself.

[nostatic]

What did the shrink say? I assume it is a psychiatrist since he/she prescribed meds. Is he doing therapy with that shrink or a psychologist?

Hard to speak to your specific case as everyone is a little different. But there are some general truths I've found. If he really has clinical psychological issues then those need to be addressed. But just "oh, I'm depressed" or "oh, I'm stressed" but clinical symptoms. You need to talk to the doc and see what his assessment is.

Beyond that, substance abusers will not stop until they hit bottom and decide to stop. Period. You cannot do anything to control that. And trying to "help" can actually just enable continued bad behavior. That said, I believe that *if* someone really wants to get clean that the parents should help. It has to be a two way street though. And there need to be consequences for mis-steps. At this point it doesn't sound like he sees a problem as he has food and a roof over his head and you tolerate his behavior.

At some point both sides need to "man up" and take responsibility for it. He has to figure out that if he's going to function he needs to clean up (with the psych caveat). And you need to set limits and be ready to say "leave." My parents gave me a choice way back when - stop or move out. I moved out. Then hit bottom, got my ***** together, and asked for another chance. They granted it (luckily). But I made the most of it. So it can go right...but usually it doesn't.

[onewhippedpuppy]

You want him to quit. But he has to want to quit. That's not the case. Give him a few days to pack his crap and find a place to live. Offer to pay for counseling, shrink, etc, but don't give him cash. As long as he's in your house, you're only enabling. Good luck.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by BRPORSCHE

send him offshore. Pllenty of companies are hiring for the rigs. Look into weatherford labs and core labs.

Are you kidding me? They drug test, big time.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Offer to pay for counseling, shrink, etc, but don't give him cash.

Mission-critical advice here.