A step in the right direction - Ford and UAW

[Z-man]

Link to article

DETROIT – Ford Motor Co. says recent modifications to its contract with the United Auto Workers union help the company achieve parity with wages paid in the United States by overseas-based automakers.

UAW members approved the concessions in voting ending Monday. The changes freeze wages and cut certain benefits such as the jobs bank for laid-off workers.

Ford is releasing details of the agreement, which also allows payments to a union-run trust for retiree benefits to be paid in stock. The company is trying to bring its costs in line with slowing demand as it weathers the worst auto sales downturn in 27 years.

Ford is the first to make changes to its UAW contract. General Motors Corp. and Chrysler have yet to get contract concessions.

I believe this is the beginning of what will help the American car industry, and ultimately, even the economy.

Discuss...

-Z

[onewhippedpuppy]

Personally, I'm suprised the UAW conceded. I figured they'd do all they could to suck the automakers dry, then jump ship when things went to pieces. If the automakers can dump the excessive wages and legacy costs, they really have no excuses. Of course, they will need to start making cars that don't suck.

[Jim Richards]

IMO, Ford has been working hard to distinguish themselves from the other domestic automakers. This is just the latest example. If the domestic auto industry is to survive, Ford will be at the heart of it. And apparently, this is being recognized by the UAW...otherwise, as Matt said, they would've tried to suck Ford dry.

[Moses]

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

IMO, Ford has been working hard to distinguish themselves from the other domestic automakers. This is just the latest example. If the domestic auto industry is to survive, Ford will be at the heart of it. And apparently, this is being recognized by the UAW...otherwise, as Matt said, they would've tried to suck Ford dry.

That's my take. And I think the Ford F150 is still a big seller worldwide.

[hardflex]

Now if you get the health care costs down too, they're back in the hunt.

[Jim Richards]

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idAFN1128635120090311?rpc=44

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by hardflex

Now if you get the health care costs down too, they're back in the hunt.

Well, that, and making cars that aren't complete siht.

I was in LA a few weeks ago rented a 2008 Mustang. It was the biggest POS I've driven in a while, and if you've seen some of my VWs, you'll agree that I know POS when I see it. It had less than 20k on the clock, but the interior bits were already coming loose, and there was some sort of squeaky-clunk coming from the back.

[jyl]

Per Consumer Reports, Ford has made the biggest quality improvement among the domestics. Don't think they are up to the Japanese yet, but have pulled even with the Europeans. They have the strongest financial position in Detroit, and their ex-Boeing CEO is doing the best job of the three. If only one of the domestics survives this (and it'll be one or two, not likely to be three), I sincerely hope it is Ford. And that they buy the Corvette brand, either that or make the GT40 more affordable.

[Jim Richards]

And that they buy the Corvette brand, either that or make the GT40 more affordable.

+1. Maybe add Cadillac, too.

[Z-man]

Originally Posted by widebody911

Well, that, and making cars that aren't complete siht.

I was in LA a few weeks ago rented a 2008 Mustang. It was the biggest POS I've driven in a while, and if you've seen some of my VWs, you'll agree that I know POS when I see it. It had less than 20k on the clock, but the interior bits were already coming loose, and there was some sort of squeaky-clunk coming from the back.

Counterpoint:

First off, a rental car with 20,000 miles on it is akin to a 'normal' car with over 100,000 miles on it. Most folks abuse rentals mercilessly.

Secondly, I rented two Mustangs last year - a convertible in San Francisico, and an coupe in Orlando. Both were fine, although the coupe did have a 'check engine light on,' and the rental company said they just were not able to reset it, but the car was fine.

Thirdly: I bought a 2007 Ford Explorer Sport Trac V8 new in March, 2007. I have just over 30,000 miles on the clock. No nagging issues, no unusual squeeks and rattles, and the only issue I've had was the 4WD Low actuator arm needed to be replaced under warranty.

The SUV is my daily driver, and I use it also as a tow vehicle for PCA DE's - I tow 4-8 times a year, and the closest track is 2 hours away, the furthest, 10.

I am hopeful that the truck will continue in its current direction.

-Z-man.

[HardDrive]

Bought 1000 shares of Ford couple weeks ago.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Personally, I'm suprised the UAW conceded. I figured they'd do all they could to suck the automakers dry, then jump ship when things went to pieces. If the automakers can dump the excessive wages and legacy costs, they really have no excuses. Of course, they will need to start making cars that don't suck.

The US makes many fine automobiles, it just depends what type of cars you're looking for.

If you want a Pony car, it would be hard to beat a Mustang GT, for instance. If you want a performance sedan, good luck beating a G8. If you want a world class sports car, good luck beating a new Corvette for anywhere near the same money, and all the Big 3 make excellent light trucks, etc, etc.

This "US doesn't make good cars" nonsense is just that.

I've blown up more jap cars than American cars at any rate.

[NICKG]

well, what this whole deal with Ford is REALLY about is keepiong the union alive. Ford is in the best position of the US car makers...if GM or Chrysler does go under, all the contracts they have will be tossed in bankruptcy court. By doing this with ford, they are effectively ensuring their OWN survival(the union). It is a shrewd move really and also good buisness

[Superman]

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

IMO, Ford has been working hard to distinguish themselves from the other domestic automakers. This is just the latest example. If the domestic auto industry is to survive, Ford will be at the heart of it. And apparently, this is being recognized by the UAW...otherwise, as Matt said, they would've tried to suck Ford dry.

Jim. Didn't you mean to say "snow tires?" Oh, wait a minute. The "politics" of this thread is that it was started by Z-Man.

Indeed, I would agree that Labor reps must be a part of the solution here. Folks (including Labor reps.....and of course Pelicanheads) sometimes wrongly imagine that Management and Labors interests are antagonistic. They are much more aligned than that. Their interests, I mean. Aligned. Whether they understand that or not. Apprently, some do understand that.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Quote de onewhippedpuppy

Personally, I'm suprised the UAW conceded. I figured they'd do all they could to suck the automakers dry, then jump ship when things went to pieces. If the automakers can dump the excessive wages and legacy costs, they really have no excuses. Of course, they will need to start making cars that don't suck.

The US makes many fine automobiles, it just depends what type of cars you're looking for.



If you want a Pony car, it would be hard to beat a Mustang GT, for instance. If you want a performance sedan, good luck beating a G8. If you want a world class sports car, good luck beating a new Corvette for anywhere near the same money, and all the Big 3 make excellent light trucks, etc, etc.



This "US doesn't make good cars" nonsense is just that.



I've blown up more jap cars than American cars at any rate.

I agree that many of the niche products are damn good. The G8, Corvette, CTS-V, and Cobalt SS quickly come to mind. The Mustang build quality is crap, I would disqualify it for that reason. Personally I think the new Camaro looks promising. Regardless, its their mainstream products (where the money is made) that are inferior, especially the cars. However, they are improving, particularly GM and Ford.

[Z-man]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Regardless, its their mainstream products (where the money is made) that are inferior, especially the cars. However, they are improving, particularly GM and Ford.

If you consider that the SUV is still a very prominent product in the mainstream market, then I'd say that your a little off base. The Suburban and the Explorer/Expedition have done well in recent years. Regarding regular sedan type cars - the car magazines are giving big praises for the Ford Fuison, including the Fusion Hybrid. There are some decent US-made cars in the very competitive cross-over market - consider the Ford Edge/Escape.

Granted, a Toyota Sequioa is a better SUV than a Suburban or Expedition, but you still see a lot of the GM/Ford SUV's out there - folks keep buying them...

-Z

[Porsche-O-Phile]

The faster the U.S. automakers can break their unions, the better we're all going to be.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Z, but my question is, how many of those vehicles were sold at "employee pricing" or other low margin sales? They need to get to the point where fire sales aren't required to move product. Some of their products are competitive, but they need to be superior to lure buyers back into the showroom.

[Grog]

I'm on my 16th Ford. It has 240k on it and I consider it my most reliable vehicle. I have never been stranded by a Ford. I has twice the miles of the BMW or the Porsche, but has no clunks or rattles like the other two. I think the Japanese cars are living on a reputation that they got 10-15 years ago. They protect their rep by fixing the problems without fuss, to keep it quiet.
My brother had a trailblazer that blew a head gasket 2k out of warranty. It was a known problem but GM hoped they would make it past warranty. He had to call GM about 5 times and tell them why he will never buy another US car again before they agreed to fix it. After it was fixed he traded it for a Acura TL. I think this was he's first sporty car, he told me how great it drove and how superior the Japanese cars are (he was hooked like the weak minded on a television Evangelist). My brother drove he's new car over to show me (show off) and we went for a drive. We swapped cars which is when he discovered that a 22 year old 944 drove every bit if not better than his new high tech Acura.

[onewhippedpuppy]

I've tried to like American cars, I really have. My wife's Cadillac SRX was a wonderful car to drive, and the material quality and assembly was very good. But it started having a variety of little problems, something I just won't tolerate from a car with 60k on it that my wife drives. We started looking at other SUVs, the build quality on the domestics was blatantly inferior to the imports we drove. Looked at minivans it was the same issue. We ended up buying a Mazda MPV and have been very happy with it. In regards to the domestics, we always found ourselves asking why anyone would buy one.

Worth noting, I made a concerted effort to keep my mouth shut during our initial test drives, because the car was for my wife and I didn't want to taint her feelings. The issues were blatant enough the she typically noticed them immediately. Hard plastics, controls with a cheap tactile feel, and cheap fabrics are things that anyone can notice. Of the cars we test drove, there wasn't one domestic she enjoyed driving, especially compared to the imports. The domestics are certainly improving, but they have problems other than just consumer perception.

Depending on their reliability in a few years, I will seriously consider a G8 GTP.