Spotted, New Camaro?

[dd74]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Were I shopping for a car in that price range (yeah right), the CTS-V and Jaguar XFR would be at the top of my list. Not an AMG Mercedes, not a BMW. Oddly enough, I think the M5 would be dead last, as I find the C63 AMG more appealing as well.

The strange issue with the CTS-V is what is its competition - the M3 or M5? I would think the Seville STS-V would be M-5 territory, but...

My order:
1) CTS-V and C63 AMG - I like both cars very much. However, I think both cars are very different.

2) M3-four door - this, really, is a no brainer. A good solid track record for over 20 yrs. 4 doors helps. But why 2nd place? Because I see so many around town; they're as ubiquitous as the Mini Cooper S.

3) G8 (the performance version - whatever it's called). A dark horse, but I like this car too. The $$$ difference would be the final determiner.

What should be remembered for any one of these cars is two years from now on the secondary market, they'll all be a third less. That is the time to pounce, IMO.

[dd74]

Here's the G8 - the GXP version is the one I'd consider:

This has to be less expensive than a CTS-V, and should be a keeper for GM even if they go BK.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by dd74

Here's the G8 - the GXP version is the one I'd consider:

This has to be less expensive than a CTS-V, and should be a keeper for GM even if they go BK.

...and the link to more on the car and photos:
http://www.nextautos.com/ask-it-2009-pontiac-g8-gxp?gid=13682&nid=36387#gallery-13682

[onewhippedpuppy]

G8 GXP would be a very fun car. 415 HP, 6 speed, $38k? Yes please. After a few years of depreciation I'll definitely consider picking one up.

The M3 is a sweet car, but with 414 HP it's out-gunned compared to the CTS-V, C63, and XFR. At $54k it seems "cheap", until you consider that the 556 HP CTS-V starts at $60k. It's easy to dismiss the Cadillac, but most reviews state that it is as good or better than the benchmark M5. The C63 has 451 HP and starts at $56k. I'm a big fan of the new 510 HP Jaguar XFR, but at $80k it's pricey compared to all but the $85k M5.

You could probably make the argument that the M5 and XFR are in a different class than the others due to their midsize classing. It might be more valid to compare them to the E63 and STS-V. But no matter how you cut it, the G8 GXP and CTS-V are an absolute bargain compared to their competition.

I think this car is sex, and it has received excellent reviews:

[dd74]

Matt - re. the G8 GXP, what's the math on depreciation after two years? How much value does the car lose at say, $40,000 after two years?

Re. gas mileage. I can't help but think many of these cars get fairly good mpg for their engines. Think of all the torque they have and how one does not have to be on the gas to get the car moving.

The neighbor has an early M-B 500 series sedan. He gets 18 mpg. during his twelve-mile commute to Downtown L.A. and back.

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by dd74

Matt - re. the G8 GXP, what's the math on depreciation after two years? How much value does the car lose at say, $40,000 after two years?

Re. gas mileage. I can't help but think many of these cars get fairly good mpg for their engines. Think of all the torque they have and how one does not have to be on the gas to get the car moving.

The neighbor has an early M-B 500 series sedan. He gets 18 mpg. during his twelve-mile commute to Downtown L.A. and back.

I looked at the Pontiac...just couldn't get around the 4 doors thing. Guess it's my age showing, but I think a hot car should be a coupe!

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

i looked at the pontiac...just couldn't get around the 4 doors thing. Guess it's my age showing, but i think a hot car should be a coupe!

+1

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by dd74

Matt - re. the G8 GXP, what's the math on depreciation after two years? How much value does the car lose at say, $40,000 after two years?

Re. gas mileage. I can't help but think many of these cars get fairly good mpg for their engines. Think of all the torque they have and how one does not have to be on the gas to get the car moving.

The neighbor has an early M-B 500 series sedan. He gets 18 mpg. during his twelve-mile commute to Downtown L.A. and back.

Well, a quick look at Autotrader shows that you can pick up a 2008 G8 GT for about $22k pretty easily with under 20k miles. That was a $30k-ish car brand new, so that's about 15% yearly depreciation. I'd guess that most cars seem to hit 50% after 3-4 years, so 15% per year seems about right. I don't think the GXP is rare enough to hold it's value based on low production or high demand, and it will get lumped in with the regular GTs by many non-enthusiast buyers. Just like how the Chrysler SRT products aren't much more money used than a regular model. I'd bet that in 2011 you could find GXPs in the $20k range.

400 HP and 20+ MPG is pretty impressive. I thought my 540i was special because it had 300 HP and got 25 MPG on the highway. My 370 HP XJR is rated at 20 MPG, but I'm yet to see over 17. Probably more a function of my driving habits, it sounds amazing at full throttle.

W124 500E? That is one of my ultimate dream cars. They seem to have bottomed out in the $15k range, that would be one to buy and keep.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by dd74

Completely different car from the Catera.

the C in CTS stands for "Catera".

The CTS is just the next generation Catera.

[dd74]

Wow! A two-year-old GXP with 20-40K miles would be a steal. It'd be broken-in to boot.

You know what else: I bet gas will be cheaper in two years. Or at least I'm hoping.

At any rate, I bet any of these cars get better mileage than my Mountaineer (13.3 mpg).

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by dd74

Wow! A two-year-old GXP with 20-40K miles would be a steal. It'd be broken-in to boot.

You know what else: I bet gas will be cheaper in two years. Or at least I'm hoping.

At any rate, I bet any of these cars get better mileage than my Mountaineer (13.3 mpg).

Don't hold me to it, just a guess. Similarly though, you can get a 2 year old SRT Charger, 300, or Magnum for $20k today. Those were $40k+ cars when new. American auto depreciation is great for the 2nd owner.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

American auto depreciation is great for the 2nd owner.

Japanese, Korean, British, or German auto depreciation is different?

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by kaisen

Japanese, Korean, British, or German auto depreciation is different?

Are you kidding me? Ever owned a Toyota? We bought a 4Runner new, 5 years and 60k later we sold it for 2/3 of what we paid. Japanese cars, particularly Honda and Toyota, hold their value incredibly well.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Are you kidding me? Ever owned a Toyota? We bought a 4Runner new, 5 years and 60k later we sold it for 2/3 of what we paid. Japanese cars, particularly Honda and Toyota, hold their value incredibly well.

I asked a loaded question.

Yes, I've owned some Toyotas, and your 4Runner experience was representative of the mighty giant just a couple years ago. But times have changed. The Toyota Tundra, 4Runner, and FJ now have lower projected residual values than the top American competition. They now also have huge cash rebates, once the exclusive albatross of the Big Three.

On that note, the biggest equalizer of resale value is REAL initial transaction price relative to MSRP. If a $30K msrp Camry XLE is purchased for $28.5K then sold two years later for $18.5K it held 62% of its value and incurred $10K in real depreciation. If a $30K msrp Malibu LTZ is purchased for $26K (because of huge rebates and discounts) then sold two years later for $17K it 'only' held 57% of its value, and $9K in real depreciation. Of course the media will report that Toyota retained 5% better resale value.

The 'real' incurred depreciation is now closer than ever, measured over the entire product lines of the major manufacturers. Certain models do better, some do worse, but Toyota (and to a lesser extent, Honda) no longer have the clear advantage they once enjoyed.

E

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Are you kidding me? Ever owned a Toyota? We bought a 4Runner new, 5 years and 60k later we sold it for 2/3 of what we paid. Japanese cars, particularly Honda and Toyota, hold their value incredibly well.

Yep.

[livi]

What is with modern car design that makes most models look like they have been baked too long, all bloated. No slim, sharp lines anymore.

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by livi

What is with modern car design that makes most models look like they have been baked too long, all bloated. No slim, sharp lines anymore.

You mean you like the lines of the 1965 Pontiac I posted above?

[livi]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

You mean you like the lines of the 1965 Pontiac I posted above?

Now that you mention it. Definitely.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Are you kidding me? Japanese cars, particularly Honda and Toyota, hold their value incredibly well.

I've made a small case for the Japanese.

Okay, how about the rest of my question? How about Korean, British, or German depreciation?

Is 50% retained value from MSRP after three years the exclusive realm of the Americans?

[onewhippedpuppy]

I don't think there's anything worse than the depreciation of a Korean car. Other luxury makers (except Lexus) also have pretty poor resale value. That applies to all of them.

My only point regarding the American cars is that you'd be hard pressed to find any of them that enjoy a strong resale value. Projected resale is a nice little BS statistic for Howie Long to throw out on Chevy commercials, but in the real world it doesn't hold up. You can find a 2-3 year old Cobalt and Focus models selling for 1/3 of their initial purchase price all day long. Good luck finding the same deal on a Civic or Corolla.