Wienie King Finally Destroys Porsche

[RWebb]

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20090506-716945.html

[the]

For many years now, Porsche has quietly been much more of a financial/investment company than a car production company. My a multiple of many. It's been a pretty fascinating story, including Porsche hammering one of the richest guys in Europe so hard that he killed himself by throwing himself under a speeding train. Most people haven't followed much of it, but it is interesting.

Like all complex financial schemes, it usually seems to fall apart in the end.

http://radian.org/notebook/porsche

[Endat]

Originally Posted by the

For many years now, Porsche has quietly been much more of a financial/investment company than a car production company. My a multiple of many. It's been a pretty fascinating story, including Porsche hammering one of the richest guys in Europe so hard that he killed himself by throwing himself under a speeding train. Most people haven't followed much of it, but it is interesting.

Like all complex financial schemes, it usually seems to fall apart in the end.

http://radian.org/notebook/porsche

That is one of the most awesome things I have ever heard

[djmcmath]

So Porsche and VW are merging. So Porsche will become, really, just a fast VW, for real? Or ... ?

Dan

[Jim Richards]

VoPo AG

[trekkor]

More "Poor Man's Porsches"?


KT

[Porsche-O-Phile]

I've been saying for the last few years that Porsche NEEDS to come up with a new, better "entry level" vehicle. The Boxster isn't bad, but it's played out now - they need something new kinda' like the 914 (which got them through the recession of the 70s), the 924/944 (which got them through the recession of the 80s), etc. They simply can't expect to keep pretending there's a market for $70,000 SUVs and $150,000 sports cars when the money that used to be out there driving such demand is GONE.

Frankly I think partnering up with VW and trying to survive as part of some kind of collaborative effort is pretty damn smart right now - there just isn't any money out there and there CERTAINLY isn't any kind of high-end, high-dollar sports car market out there right now. Smart to retreat, regroup, retool and hunker down while surviving in someone else's bunker for the coming few years, hopefully able to emerge with new exciting products in 3-5 years that will be able to capture a re-emerging market of people with some new money at that time. It ain't gonna' happen anytime soon though - if they're smart (and I think they are) they'll take advantage of the next few years to come out with some winners.

[Dottore]

First the Porsche and Piech clans all need to put their dicks back into their trousers—and that may be easier said than done.

[pwd72s]

Porsche the car company? Sounds more like Berkshire and Hathaway these days...I wonder if anybody else remembers what those original two companies made?

[p911dad]

Porsche maybe wants to be all things to all people. Cover all the car niches. With VW in tow, now they even make big trucks. What is next, subway cars? Buses? It is an awesome game plan for the owners. I think GM used to use the same plan, as I recall.. Porsche even has the same union types and bank players. Get so big you fall over.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Sad day. No longer will management be looking out for what's best for Porsche. Now it will be, what's best for VAG? VAG, as you recall, also owns Audi and Lamborghini. So what happens in racing? What happens when it's 911 vs R8, TT vs Boxster, 911TT vs Gallardo, etc? Does this become like GM corporate policy, where no car is allowed to have more HP than the Corvette? Platform sharing that leads to a FWD Porsche?

Everyone screamed when the Panamera and Cayenne were announced. But I think that looking back, THIS will be the point at which Porsche became just "another car company". Damn shame.

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Sad day. No longer will management be looking out for what's best for Porsche. Now it will be, what's best for VAG? .

Not sure why you say this.

The management is, I'm sure, very much aware of the value of its brands and will see that that value is enhanced over time. There has always been a deep technical cooperation and cross shareholding between VW and Porsche. Currently Porsche owns 51% of VW—which is a rather absurd situation on some level.

Porsche and VW management have for some time engaged in all kinds of bickering that has been detrimental to the cooperation between them.

The merger should allow for a much better cooperation between them in future.

Look at Ferrari. Fiat is the best thing that ever happened to them.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Dottore

Not sure why you say this.

The management is, I'm sure, very much aware of the value of its brands and will see that that value is enhanced over time. There has always been a deep technical cooperation and cross shareholding between VW and Porsche. Currently Porsche owns 51% of VW—which is a rather absurd situation on some level.

Porsche and VW management have for some time engaged in all kinds of bickering that has been detrimental to the cooperation between them.

The merger should allow for a much better cooperation between them in future.

Look at Ferrari. Fiat is the best thing that ever happened to them.

What happens when you have multiple "house" brands that are all competing within the same market segment? Audi, Porsche, and Lamborghini could all potentially step on each other's toes. It makes very little sense to compete against yourself, just ask GM.

Fiat doesn't own another brand that directly competes with Ferrari. Alfa is the only one close, but their only performance car (8C) does not compete with any of Ferrari's products. Also don't forget the Ferrari was failing financially. Porsche is (was) a very profitable independent company.

[Jim Richards]

I think a Porsche Jetta would be cool. Hey, I just happen to have a spare Porsche badge. Hmmm. Maybe I could replace my Jetta's Vdub badge with it and get a jump on everyone else.

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

What happens when you have multiple "house" brands that are all competing within the same market segment? Audi, Porsche, and Lamborghini could all potentially step on each other's toes. It makes very little sense to compete against yourself, just ask GM.

Fiat doesn't own another brand that directly competes with Ferrari. Alfa is the only one close, but their only performance car (8C) does not compete with any of Ferrari's products. Also don't forget the Ferrari was failing financially. Porsche is (was) a very profitable independent company.

I'll agree to disagree. I think Porsche will be just fine.

As I posted above, I think the main reason for the merger was to try to make a dysfunctional family function somewhat better.

[legion]

Do you guys remember a company called DEC? It was all kinds of dysfunctional. Well, it got bought by Compaq, who thought they could fix it. They spend all kinds of time and money trying to fix DEC but unfortunately neglected their other divisions. Compaq was weak and got bought by HP, which thought they could fix Compaq....

No reason for telling this story...

[lendaddy]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

They simply can't expect to keep pretending there's a market for $70,000 SUVs and $150,000 sports cars when the money that used to be out there driving such demand is GONE.

Actually, the Cayenne is/was/and continues to be their biggest profit success in a long long time.

What did you base your comment on?

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by lendaddy

Actually, the Cayenne is/was/and continues to be their biggest profit success in a long long time.

What did you base your comment on?

Yup. Cayenne is the car of choice for the Russian mafia. Sell like hot cakes over there.

[lendaddy]

Originally Posted by Dottore

Yup. Cayenne is the car of choice for the Russian mafia. Sell like hot cakes over there.

It's actually still their best selling model in the US and Canada as well, by a 2-1 margin or so.

As hard as we try to tell people what to want it just doesn't seem to be working

I also believe the "cheap" models Boxster/Cayman have taken the biggest sales hit here recently.

[onewhippedpuppy]

However, if they do a few more of these, I'm cool with it.