We own GM now I guess

[URY914]

AP NEW YORK - "General Motors filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection Monday as part of the Obama administration's plan to shrink the automaker to a sustainable size and give a majority ownership stake to the federal government."

That stock your grandfather gave you is now worthless.

[flatbutt]

I understand that Canada also has an interest in it?

[URY914]

Correct. $9 billion as I recall from the article.

No more Saturn, Pontiac or Hummer.

[the]

Almost all of GM is now owned by the US Government and the United Auto Workers union.

[varmint]

The 31-Year-Old in Charge of Dismantling G.M.

By DAVID E. SANGER
Published: May 31, 2009
WASHINGTON — It is not every 31-year-old who, in a first government job, finds himself dismantling General Motors and rewriting the rules of American capitalism.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/01/business/01deese.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

[pwd72s]

Obama owns GM and Chrysler. That's one of the reasons why I bought a Ford.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

One more reason to keep buying Japanese I guess...

Anything that supports the UAW or the communist movement in this country is not something I will support. Ever.

[m21sniper]

Jeff, agreed.

[HardDrive]

You guys are acting like the government had a choice. Consider what would happen if GM were allowed to go into bankruptcy without 'debtor in possesion' financing from Uncle Sam.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

We'd have a much more honest company (or collection of them) emerge from the mess, sustainable and possibly even able to compete. The new companies would have been leaner, meaner, innovative, competitive and largely free of the burden of the UAW, which is directly responsible (at least to some extent) for this mess.

Instead, this is really just prolonging the agony. The new "Government Motors" will continue to bleed red ink for YEARS - only now it will be taxpayer money. It will be "more of the same" from present-day GM - same lousy management, same crappy and uninspired designs, same inefficiency, same parasitic union leeching, same bloated decision-making processes, etc. Just the taxpayers will fund it. GM needs a LOT more than simply dumping Saturn, Pontiac and Hummer to be really viable. They need to collapse and be torn to shreds by the free markets. This is not being allowed to happen - we're treating SYMPTOMS, not the underlying diseases that caused GM to become insolvent in the first place.

GM should have been allowed to collapse entirely. So should have AIG. So should have Chrysler. Failed business should be allowed to go under - period. It sucks and yes, there would be a lot of pain, but these things are a case of "pay a little now or a lot later".

Believe me, we'll be way worse off in the long run for this.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by HardDrive

You guys are acting like the government had a choice. Consider what would happen if GM were allowed to go into bankruptcy without 'debtor in possesion' financing from Uncle Sam.

A new, more viable GM would have risen from the ashes.

[URY914]

So when do "we the people" sell it to someone else?

Think we''ll make money on the sale?

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

One more reason to keep buying Japanese I guess...

Anything that supports the UAW or the communist movement in this country is not something I will support. Ever.

Originally Posted by m21sniper

Jeff, agreed.

Originally Posted by m21sniper

A new, more viable GM would have risen from the ashes.

With what, your money?

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by milt

With what, your money?

Actually, that's how it's being done now.

With our money...

[steve911]

Originally Posted by URY914

So when do "we the people" sell it to someone else?

Think we''ll make money on the sale?

WSJ had several pages on the GM filing today. US government owns 60%, Canada 12% IIRC.

Gov't will put in something on the order of $50 BILLION. For gov't stake to be worth anything, enterprise will have to be worth something on the order of $80BN in order for the taxpayer to breakeven on our 60% stake. GM's market capitalization at its recent peak in 2000 was only $56 BN.

In other words, we won't likely make a penny on this; quite the opposite. Its solely a way to buy votes - to the tune of $50BN. And I'm not done ranting about this.

[jyl]

Without govt support, GM (and Chrysler) would be in liquidation by now. Not re-organizing, but completely going out of business. Many of the US parts suppliers would also be liquidating. Fairly good chance that F would not survive the BK of its major suppliers.

So, yes Jeff, there would be no UAW, because there would be no US auto industry.

I think the govt is trying to make the best of a situation in which all the alternatives are unpleasant.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

Actually, that's how it's being done now.

With our money...

Your concept of how this is gonna work needs some attention. If we don't and won't buy our own product, how will we see the end? But, that's not the point. You said the company would come back from ashes. My friend, if it becomes ashes, they will just blow away leaving us with a problem bigger than what we have already.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by jyl

Without govt support, GM (and Chrysler) would be in liquidation by now. Not re-organizing, but completely going out of business. Many of the US parts suppliers would also be liquidating. Fairly good chance that F would not survive the BK of its major suppliers.

So, yes Jeff, there would be no UAW, because there would be no US auto industry.

I think the govt is trying to make the best of a situation in which all the alternatives are unpleasant.

Got some evidence to back this claim?

Milt, many companies survive Ch 11 and come back leaner and meaner and more competitive. Whould GM/Chrysler? Probably at least one of them would survive...but i do not profess to have a crystal ball.

[creaturecat]

1.4 million dollars PER WORKER spent so far in Canada.

[Zeke]

I took ashes to mean Chap 7.