Class III Firearms / Accessories

[kmhemi]

I am considering the purchase of a class III item. The dealer talks like the paperwork is a snap. I have always been told othwerwise. Does anyone here have any experience in this? They want paid UP front before filing the paperwork becasue they put the serial number of the item on the paperwork. Is paying up front standard practice? Obviously I can not take ownership of the item until the paperwork is approved. He said this state is behind on them and it could be 3 or 4 mothns before I can actually have it. Does this sound legit or do I look elsewhere. There are very few class III dealers here.

[Jeff Higgins]

That is pretty much what I have found as well. I know a few folks in passing (met at matches, etc.) and have one good friend who have their class III's; every one of them has told me at one time or another what a PIA it was to get approved, and how long it took. Several of those acquaintances let theirs lapse, selling all of their class III stuff. Just was not worth it to them.

Having a class III opens the door to a lot of things, not the least of which are unannounced inspections of your storage facilities by the BATF. My friend who retains his class III owns a gun store and operates a gun smithing business anyway, so he is subject to these BATF searches regardless. Adding a class III was not that big of an extra burden to him. The other guys, however, soon tired of it.

I guess it depends on where you live, and the level of "commitment" (zealousness...) displayed by local agents. Horror stories abound about agents with a hard-on for someone making their lives misserable. "Storage facilities" can mean your whole house, garage, outbuildings, etc.

You have to ask yourself if this is really worth it just to play with machine guns and silencers. Most eventually decide it's not. Machine guns are too expensive to feed, and silencers really don't. At least not like you see in the movies; most still make enough noise to require hearing protection. Think along the lines of lowering .45 or 9mm noise levels to .22 noise levels. Not a big enough deal to make it worth the hassle. And, once you have garnered the attention that being a class III holder seems to merit, it is kind of hard to un-do. Think long and hard about this...

[Eric Coffey]

Yep, pretty standard practice for Class III, and be prepared to wait at LEAST 3 months. You can set up an LLC/Trust to buy it and bypass the LEO sheriff/chief sign-off. That might save a little time, but it's the BATF back-log that you are really waiting on. Also, each item will require it's own tax stamp as well ($200). So, if you want a short-barrel rifle with a suppressor, that will be 2 form 4's, and 2 tax stamps ($400).

[legion]

At least you guys have the ability to buy Class III stuff.

The state of Illinois has determined that no one in the state should be allowed to have anything class III, except law enforcement.

[kmhemi]

anyone should be able to own them if they want. That sucks that you cant buy them there.
So I purchase the item before hand and pay the 200 dollar tax and the paper work is no hassle, I just have to wait forever for it...is this correct?

[kmhemi]

Also,
As an owner am I also subject to these unannounced BATF searches as mentioned above or is that only for resellers? I have NO interest in selling firearms whatsoever.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by kmhemi

Also,
As an owner am I also subject to these unannounced BATF searches as mentioned above or is that only for resellers? I have NO interest in selling firearms whatsoever.

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

....
Having a class III opens the door to a lot of things, not the least of which are unannounced inspections of your storage facilities by the BATF. My friend who retains his class III owns a gun store and operates a gun smithing business anyway, so he is subject to these BATF searches regardless. Adding a class III was not that big of an extra burden to him. The other guys, however, soon tired of it....

Sounds like it to me.

[kmhemi]

I saw that too, but he owns a gun store and sells class 3 weapons so that would probably make a difference. Then again..........maybe not. that's why I ask so many questions.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by kmhemi

I saw that too, but he owns a gun store and sells class 3 weapons so that would probably make a difference. Then again..........maybe not. that's why I ask so many questions.

He's talking about several people, one of whom owns a store so he already knows the drill, the other guys soon tired of it.

I just assume the other guys are regular Joe's.

[on2wheels52]

I chose not to add on the class III endorsement when I got my pawnbroker FFL (class VII?), not feeling the burden would be justified by the limited amount of sales I would expect.
I think Jeff is correct re the unannounced inspections (and I think that's all 24 hours) whether you're the dealer or have made a single purchase.
"so he is subject to these BATF searches regardless" (the holder of a non-class III FFL)
Not what I was told at my last compliance check. She said they are only allowed to do one unannounced check per 12 month period (assuming the dealer isn't on 'report' for violations during the last visit). And they only come during business hours.
I suggest you talk to a few people who have already purchased something class III and see what they have to say about the experience before closing the deal.
Jim

[charleskieffner]

it is a giant PITA here in maricopa county. shurf joes office NOT signing them. alternative methods being sought as i write. i have been at this since jan 2009. all forms signed/fingerprinted/already have FBI background/ AZDPS background check. had secret clearance for project mercury/white sands/nellisafb/hollomonafb/lukeafb/davis-monthanafb/sandi labs/yuma proving grounds/los alamos/and i have my AZ CCW.

HUGE TIME CONSUMING PITA..........but i will in the end get mine signed off. soooooooooooooooooooo

with that in mind. heres yer choices:

LEO sign off...GOOD LUCK! unless huge political(cash) supporter and yer nose is BROWN!

superior court judge...........my present angle.

both the above are FREE or should be.

start a LLC.

or a living revocable trust.

the last 2 will be my next move. you can set up i think one or both with software from bizmart. then you never have to deal with the BS again. ie. you want to buy something else. just submit papers to ATF and wait.

if you are an individual with a class III weapon ATF does NOT have the right to barge in unannounced unless you are commiting nefarious activities. thats from my FFL amigo.

[on2wheels52]

Charles, God love ya, I have no doubt as to your sincerity as a person who appreciates firearms (and I wish I had 100 more regulars like you (maybe 10 would be enough)) I can perhaps understand why you may have to endure a longer then normal period before obtaining clearance for a class III device. I am truly happy there are guys like you out there.
Should you find yourself in my neck of the woods I would be disappointed if you failed to drop in. My crowd would make you feel among friends.
Jim

[kmhemi]

Well, based on this, what reason would I have NOT to buy it?

if you are an individual with a class III weapon ATF does NOT have the right to barge in unannounced unless you are commiting nefarious activities. thats from my FFL amigo.

[charleskieffner]

honest to god true story from my FFL...............

FFL has customer who when he was 18, hes now an old fart like me(50's), pissed in the rio grande river in new messiko and was cited for it by a new messiko LEO!

swear to god. shurf joes office maricopa county(phx) digs this stupid shat up and REFUSES HIS FFL CLASS III sign off. guy has a spotless record like myself. no misdemeanors of any consequence, no felonys, no nothing.

in my case i had a restraining order against me back in the late 1990's for my sons traffic accident, where he was involved in a hit and run by another kid. my statement and i have a damn good memory to the smart ass kid, " either you give me your insurance companies name or im calling the police and we are gonna kick yer ass LEGALLY! mom gets involved, uncle gets involved blah blah went to court. no charges, no cops, no fingerprints, no arrests, no nothing, end of subject . accident happened on state trust land, my kid didnt call cops, then i found out, reamed kid the prior verbal, mommy/uncle get involved, my kid has a broken back(dirt bike), other kid lures him to local park, beats my kid up while hes wearing back brace etc etc. huge cluster FEEK!

end result...........nothing legally against me.

but that showed up.............and now i wait with the new messiko rio grande pisser for an audience with the honorable maricopa county superior court judge.

hell im getting a measley MP5SD. and its only semi auto!!!! so only (2) stamps suppressor and SBR!

my advice.............donate heavy big bucks to local LEO's and get a receipt for when you approach them for your sign off. go to a pro gun enthusiast superior court judge, then spend the bucks on the software to create an LLC or a living revocable trust.

one lawyer quoted us a $1000 bucks to set up an LLC or a living revocable trust for CLASS III's. screw that. i'll buy the freeking software and a 12 pak and do it myself. a $1000 bucks is alot of ammo and goodie parts.

[charleskieffner]

Originally Posted by on2wheels52

Charles, God love ya, I have no doubt as to your sincerity as a person who appreciates firearms (and I wish I had 100 more regulars like you (maybe 10 would be enough)) I can perhaps understand why you may have to endure a longer then normal period before obtaining clearance for a class III device. I am truly happy there are guys like you out there.
Should you find yourself in my neck of the woods I would be disappointed if you failed to drop in. My crowd would make you feel among friends.
Jim

thank you. i appreciate people that are responsible with firearms. i love werking on them, making them very very accurate, cleaning them, machining parts for them on occasion, AND HUNTING! plus the warm fuzzy factor of overwhelming superior firepower!

i shoot alot. grew up doing it when nothing else to do. i am having more fun than a barrel of monkees doing these combat wombat .22 pistol shoots with my FFL amigo. hes turned me on to 3 gun shoots and that may be on the horizon for me. more FUN THAN SEX!

[tabs]

Why do you want one? Your gona be the first on the list when the MIB come to pick up the guns.

[kmhemi]

Quote:
Why do you want one? Your gonna be the first on the list when the MIB come to pick up the guns.

Another good point. Maybe its just a bad idea all together. That's why I asked. When I set my mind to something its very difficult for me to change it without good reason. I am getting some good reasons here.
When they do the back ground checks are they really that thorough?
How deep do they really dig? I mean if you were a bad person you wouldn't be trying to register the dam thing now would you?

More input please...positive or negative its all appreciated.

[tabs]

You still havn't given a reason WHY you want one...

I have had an FFL...when I gave it up for a C&R they sent it to me in 2 weeks...I have never had a problem with the BAFT..or even the CA DOJ...U play it straight with them, and are forth coming and they leave ya alone.

[red-beard]

I would love a full auto 10-22.

Fun, but worthless!

[tabs]

Ohh if ya try and BUlly the BATF like Garner of Ohio did, then they fall upon ya like a ton of bricks...