Need Input: Negotiating on a job offer

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

Well, we come down to this. I have a job offer in an area we would like to live after my short term of unemployment.

Money is OK, almost what I was making.

Position is OK, I have done this before and enjoy it.

Company offered job before I left the interview (Third time this has happened to me in my life).

ISSUE:

I used to have five weeks vacation per year (private sector).

The offer allows two weeks per year vacation plus company recognized holidays.

THOUGHT:

I want three weeks minimum. How hard should I hold to my guns? (I can make it a while longer without employment, but it is killing me to not be working!!!!) Ya never know what they will budge on, but in this market you can find good talent (I consider myself very good talent) around every corner.

One other thing, I don't want to take a job and leave it in a year or so. Taking it and keeping an eye out for something better is not what I want to do.

In a better job market, I would not consider less than three weeks and would stick to my guns.

Thanks,

[Dennis Kalma]

A week of vacation is worth 2% in pay.....I have run into this situation, basically the view is that they can either give you an extra 2% in pay and you take a week of absence every year or they give the extra week.

Watch out for the cultures that want you at the grindstone all the time, some times low vacation allowances are the result of a culture that thinks you belong to them 7 x 24 and have no life outside of the workplace...

good luck...

Dennis

[red-beard]

That is one of the few things that is easy for them to negotiate on, since it doesn't affect the bottom line. Say that with your experience/ level, you really need 4 weeks.

If you don't do it now, you will never get it.

[VincentVega]

What's their PTO policy, same 2 weeks mentioned above?

I cant see this being a deal breaker, just ask for a little more $$. I bet that's simpler than getting more vacation.

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

Dennis,

Had not really thought about a weeks vacation as 2% of pay. Point of negotiation.

Yes, I do most heartily agree on relationship between time off allowed and how much of a cog in the machine you are thought to be.

Yes, with my level/experience I should "normally" receive more vacation time than a current college or even high school grad. They did not seem to think so. I have more than 25 years work history, more than 15 in my field with degrees.

I want the ability to take time off when necessary, and two weeks is not enough to get things done.

PTO is in the two weeks.

[FastCarFan]

Originally Posted by red-beard

That is one of the few things that is easy for them to negotiate on, since it doesn't affect the bottom line. Say that with your experience/ level, you really need 4 weeks.

If you don't do it now, you will never get it.

I agree, it doesn't cost a company much to give you vacation. Everything I have read says you should try to negotiate, & I would think your current # of days of vacation is a reasonable request.

Having said that, 5 weeks is a lot. Perhaps you start by talking about your current 5 weeks & see if you can negotiate at least 4 weeks. I don't know what your age is, but you really shouldn't have to go too far backwards in vacation days, unless your current situation is above the norm.

Obviously there may be a waiting period before you can take the vacation -- you can't show up for work on day 1 & say you are taking next week as vacation!

Can you accept the lower vacation offer for year 1 with a written promise of more next year?

Good luck.

[stomachmonkey]

Given the current state of affairs it does seem to be a trivial thing to worry about.

Still you should ask if it's what you want/need.

Places I have worked the amount of time given was based on years spent with the company, not how long you've been in the workforce. Start at two/three and goes up over time.

[RWebb]

you want to live there - take it

ask for the extra week(s) later - if they say no, then start loking for another job in that area you want to live in

[JeremyD]

I'd ask for three weeks - not that big of a deal.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by FastCarFan

I agree, it doesn't cost a company much to give you vacation.

Depends on the co's policy. If it's use it or lose it then no, does not cost them much.

If they allow rollover that can get costly.

Worked for one place that rolled over. They also were generous with vacation and comp days.

During my tenure there my base more than doubled, so did the value of those early days that rolled over.

In the end they owed me North of $60k

Unused/accrued time off also can also be a liability in workforce reduction/lay off/severance scenarios.

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

Interesting points.

The five weeks was where I was, I am unemployed so they are not luring me.

They do not allow roll over of vacation days.

90 days to first use.

They offered 36 hours this year, 80 every year until year five. I am thinking of countering with 32 hours this year, 120 every year until year five.

After sleeping on it, vacation days seems like a big deal to me.

[cgarr]

How does Vacation not cost a company any money? I have three PAID temps working right now because of employees on vacation. Its a good thing you did not ask about it in the interview. Anyone I interview who asks about time off does not get the job, first prove yourself then lets talk.

[mschuep]

I would definitely try to get the vacation issue on the table right now...even if they don't budge on this years time, hopefully you can get more for next year, or at least you can get it on paper that you will re-negotiate at the end of the year based upon your performance, etc. Once the employer has you, I feel it is a lot easier for them to say "well, that is our policy"

Explain that you don't have a problem with the 90 day policy, or the limited amount the first year, as you will be learning the job with their company. Personally, I would then see what they say at that point before suggesting sacrifice of 2% pay, etc.

2 weeks for 5 years with no additional personal days and no roll over is not much time at all...(currently on the 5th year of that deal)

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

Craig,

I will NEVER broach benefits until HR takes them at hand with me.

Vacation is a benefit to all involved. It refreshes the persons mind and brings them back in better attitude.

I am also the type of person who puts in 12 hour days and is up on weekends for work.

Yes, how much value does someone hold and how do you reflect that value? They offered the money and I have not rejected that (though I would be earning a bit less).

Thanks!

[LWJ]

My $.02
This opinion was formed during a stronger economy but principles don't change.

1) They want you. Once they have made that mental committment, there is wiggle room.
2) There is always room on salary and vacation.
3) You can never re-negotiate after you accept. NOW is the time to give yourself the payraise/vacation you deserve.

Good luck! I will tell you that the above is absolutely from experience. I had a position in the past where I was able to negotiate significantly above the pay grade allowed for my position because I sold myself very well.

As you are a monster worker (12 hour days/weekends, etc) your future employer needs to understand that they will be getting a real bargain in you. Let them know what you need in order to perform at your best.

Larry

[rcooled]

[QUOTE=Groesbeck Hurricane;4743054]Craig,

I am also the type of person who puts in 12 hour days and is up on weekends for work. QUOTE]

Unless you're non-exempt and are paid overtime, you need to seriously consider backing off on those hours. Once you show that you're willing to routinely work extra hours for free, it'll always be expected of you. Over the years, I've seen many over-zealous employees just get chewed up and spit out by companies who take advantage of such "commitment". Don't give away the farm, my friend....after 25 years, you shouldn't have to be putting that much effort into your job. It's no wonder you don't have enough time to get anything else done.

By all means, do negotiate your best deal for salary/vacation/benefits up front. Once you accept the terms of employment, it'll be nearly impossible to change things later on.

[The Gaijin]

They can't find extra money - but additonal time off costs them nothing. Sounds like you are not on an assembly line.

They know and you know that whatever work you miss while on vacation, you will make up before you go and when you get back.

Just remind them you wont be taking much time off until you have been there for a while and you are up to speed. I have been through the exact same situation in the last year and it worked out OK for me.

If they are really cheap with time off - that could be a bad sign.

[MotoSook]

If you don't negotiate now it will be harder once you're onboard. There is nothing wrong with asking for what you want. Just be sure to have good reasons and be polite.

[Deschodt]

Vacation is important, but it is true it can be a liability when layoffs come around - seen it done ! Seen it taken away, too, ouch !

Me, I took a job that paid $10-15K less than it normally does because I get 4 weeks off + holidays, alternative work arrangement ( I work 4 days x 9h + only 4h from home on friday, it's almost a 3 days week end every week), great medical benefit and since it's in the hotel industry, as many stays as I want in 5 star hotels, practically free! Makes for nice vacations and lots of happy friends.... It's not worth it to all people, it is to me... Live to work vs work to live...

2 weeks is uncivilized ! Some of my friends in europe had 9 weeks off !!! (and their company was just as competitive)

[Superman]

You mentioned that your previous employment was in the private sector, but you didn't mention whether this current offer is also in the private sector. As much as guys like to compare (unfavorably) public sector organizations to private sector ones, there are some MASSIVE managerial and administrative differences. In most public sector organizations I have seen, vacation policy is chiseled in stone. Managers are 100% powerless to tweak organizational policy to accommodate an individual worker. If a governmental agency did this, and did it because it made good sense and was reasonable, AM talk show radio hosts would crucify them nonetheless by leaving out certain bits of information.

On the other hand, with every organization there are decisions and adjustments of SOME kind to make. The important thing, as many have mentioned here, is to begin the dialogue now. Even if they cannot technically increase your vacation benefit, they might be able to modify your pay (2% or whatever), and agree to a strategy that involves you taking a week o two off each year without pay in addition to your two weeks of paid vacation.

BTW, our stories have some similarities. The job I took recently also grants only two weeks' paid vacation. Like you, I very frequently, unconsciously, work twelve hours or so in a day. There must be a quid-pro-quo if you will. We work our asses off and we're good at what we do. We are entitled to some deference and respect. Since you are in negotiations right now, the connection between those things should be DISCUSSED now, and ideally they should be quantified now. At a minimum, they must be discussed. And regardless of whether the resolution is written and quantified, in the future if there is a gap between what you GIVE and what you are GETTING, then a change will become necessary. At that time, if you are able to point back to these current discussions, the lesson will be "I told you so."