Tour de Lance '09

[look 171]

Originally Posted by dd74

All I'm really saying is, like the sloping top tube, stiffness has evolved to a sales gimmick more than a needed facet of road cycling. One is much better off paying attention to wheelbase and angles, IMO than weight and stiffness.

I don't think there is much too play with the angles and wheelbase if you want a true road bike. There was an Italian builder called Rigi , I think that's how you spell it, that shorten the wheel into the seat tube that made the bike so quick but unstable during down hill that you can't relax. Guys use to get it for Crits. Gios was the other bike to have because of the higher bottom bracket. I had the 1st gen team Giant that was a bit high strung. I like it, but yet I hate it because when I am beat tired on a lone training ride I have to really pay attention.



I have riden my fair share of frames over the past 20+ years and have broken a few. I will say this, back in the days of steel only, I have seen them crack and and break at the joints, and some do not survive crashes well. Ask me how I know that one. It really depends on what happen in the crash. I hit a patch of oil and had my Look 171 pinned under a park car on the other side of the street and it survived fine.

I had a cannondale CAD 3 that I really liked. I rode it for 4-5 hard hours on the street of LA with some hammer heads. It did its job as a racing bike, stiff and raw. I liked it. I had an ICE. It felt dead but stiff. People forget, you buy a racing bike to race not to tour on. If you want comfort, buy a longer touring bike. I never understand why people buy the latest and the greatest "racing" frame sets and deep dish carbon wheels to ride a centry, a "fun ride". Lets not talk about time trial bars on those.


Back to the Tour. I think they are going to dish out the pain in the hills to come for Lance and I think he might crack this year.

Jeff

[dd74]

Originally Posted by look 171

With the Columbus, Renolds, and such tubing, you could cold set the drop outs to accomondate a wider morden wheels. Just pull the drop outs apart.

I didn't need to do that. The wheel slipped right in. All I did was push the quick release "closed," and that was it. Old school bike with enough modern gearing to stay with the modern cyclists.

[MFAFF]

Originally Posted by look 171

I don't think there is much too play with the angles and wheelbase if you want a true road bike.

Wow..that's a different way of looking at it..
I remember.. back in the day (yes I'm an old git)...Raleigh used to offer a range of 'bespoke but off the shelf frames'
They had a range of 531c frames that you could order with different frame angles and geometries to suit.. there was a seamless range from full on crit bikes to touring bikes all avaliable.

I recall when ordering my Road Ace that I tried a number of different geometries to find the one that suited me best.
The geometries were all slightly different (from memory there was 0.5 degree difference between each one with alterations possible on the seat tube to allow different crank lengths and seat post heights...)

Within the road race range there was a great difference from the TdF type bikes to the day racers....there as a few degrees rake difference but allied to different forks.. then you could tune the character of the bike to suit..it was really challenging...the attraction of a really nervous steed or a more relaxed frame was difficult to evaluate on a short ride..

Anyway.. just done 15miles this am.. just for fun..its great seeing how many carbon frames are around...and being on a rusty steelie makes me smile.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by look 171

I don't think there is much too play with the angles and wheelbase if you want a true road bike. There was an Italian builder called Rigi , I think that's how you spell it, that shorten the wheel into the seat tube that made the bike so quick but unstable during down hill that you can't relax. Guys use to get it for Crits. Gios was the other bike to have because of the higher bottom bracket. I had the 1st gen team Giant that was a bit high strung. I like it, but yet I hate it because when I am beat tired on a lone training ride I have to really pay attention.

Well, back in the day, I think certain manufacturers made race-specific frames. Colnago is known for high, tight and steep dimensions, but oddly a longer top tube. I've heard it say one doesn't ride on a Colnago, they ride in a Colnago. I've seen similar dimensions on Pinarello, Merckx, Cinelli, Bianchi, etc. Plus, a lot of those frames had adjustable drop outs. Sure don't see that ability with today's frames. Well, maybe except the Gios Compact Pro - which is steel.

Originally Posted by look 171

I have riden my fair share of frames over the past 20+ years and have broken a few. I will say this, back in the days of steel only, I have seen them crack and and break at the joints, and some do not survive crashes well. Ask me how I know that one. It really depends on what happen in the crash. I hit a patch of oil and had my Look 171 pinned under a park car on the other side of the street and it survived fine.

Just two months ago, I destroyed a Columbus Spirit frame (along with some ribs and my collarbone). I swear Columbus SL would have withstood that same crash. The new steel isn't all it's cracked up to be either. Some expert or the other - Sheldon Brown maybe - has said at the rate of thinness steel is now for race bikes, one might as well go with Titanium.

Originally Posted by look 171

I never understand why people buy the latest and the greatest "racing" frame sets and deep dish carbon wheels to ride a centry, a "fun ride". Lets not talk about time trial bars on those.

IMO, the latest and greatest is good only if a cyclist is sponsored, and gets the latest and greatest for free.

Originally Posted by look 171

Back to the Tour. I think they are going to dish out the pain in the hills to come for Lance and I think he might crack this year.

What Tour? Is Lance racing again? He's probably on steel.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by MFAFF

Wow..that's a different way of looking at it..
I remember.. back in the day (yes I'm an old git)...Raleigh used to offer a range of 'bespoke but off the shelf frames'
They had a range of 531c frames that you could order with different frame angles and geometries to suit.. there was a seamless range from full on crit bikes to touring bikes all avaliable.

I recall when ordering my Road Ace that I tried a number of different geometries to find the one that suited me best.
The geometries were all slightly different (from memory there was 0.5 degree difference between each one with alterations possible on the seat tube to allow different crank lengths and seat post heights...)

Within the road race range there was a great difference from the TdF type bikes to the day racers....there as a few degrees rake difference but allied to different forks.. then you could tune the character of the bike to suit..it was really challenging...the attraction of a really nervous steed or a more relaxed frame was difficult to evaluate on a short ride..

Anyway.. just done 15miles this am.. just for fun..its great seeing how many carbon frames are around...and being on a rusty steelie makes me smile.

I remember those days too. I was asked what sort of racing would I be doing; crits or stage? There is/was a difference between the frames - given the manufacturer. Wheelbase in particular.

[dd74]

It's too bad I don't fit on a 54cm. This would be a most-excellent ride.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1991-Schwinn-WATERFORD-PDG-Paramount-Road-Bike-54-cm_W0QQitemZ330344137398QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Defa ultDomain_0?hash=item4cea0b82b6&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1205|293%3A1| 294%3A50

[tcar]

Maybe you guys can go play in your own bike thread????

[HardDrive]

Hincapie was robbed.

[RPKESQ]

Originally Posted by HardDrive

Hincapie was robbed.

Too true. What a shame.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by HardDrive

Hincapie was robbed.

Originally Posted by RPKESQ

Too true. What a shame.

No. That's racing. Hincapie can't expect people to back off just because he's close to yellow. He should quit pouting and give it another shot when he gets another opportunity.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

He launched himself right in the hunt and took back over 5 minutes. That's no small feat.

Hincapie is an animal - he's a lot stronger and tougher than people realize.

[Laneco]

Agreed!

Hincapie has ridden in support of the yellow jersey enough times! He is well overdue for his dahy in the sun.

Should be some great racing today and over this coming week!

angela

[billybek]

That was a great finish for Contador on stage 15. Stretching the field a little bit.
Still lots of racing left and anything can happen.

[JavaBrewer]

It's hard to tell if Lance was really pressured/maxed or just playing poker. Contador surely demonstrated that he has a couple extra gears - can Lance match him...I'm doubtful...if he had some reserve I would have thought he would have used some to cut the gap to something under a minute.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by dmoolenaar

It's hard to tell if Lance was really pressured/maxed or just playing poker. Contador surely demonstrated that he has a couple extra gears - can Lance match him...I'm doubtful...if he had some reserve I would have thought he would have used some to cut the gap to something under a minute.

Lance is done, Contador will win. Lance even said so himself and admitted he was now a team support rider.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

Lance is done, Contador will win. Lance even said so himself and admitted he was now a team support rider.

That means nothing. He could quite easily just be trying to get into Contadore's head.

A big part of cycling is head games.

[turbo6bar]

Lance's strategy of losing 1.5 minutes to Contador is brilliant. He has him right where he wants.

[artplumber]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

That means nothing. He could quite easily just be trying to get into Contadore's head.

A big part of cycling is head games.

The only way that would work is if he were on a separate team. And the way it works best is by beating the other guy up the hill, but letting him win the stage. LA will have to concede the race unless something happens to Contador. No way that he is going to be a domestique and save enough energy to take 2 min out of Contador in the remaining stages.

I don't feel sorry for LA, the guy is 37 and still generating a heck of a lot of watts. He just can't beat you senseless like 7 years ago.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Maybe, but in his heart I still think Lance is a competitor and that kind of fire doesn't just go out. He'll likely support Contadore, but if he thinks Contadore is cracking even a little, he's going to try to put a hurtin' on him. He might be able to win, but at 37 he's really pushing it, even for someone of his experience and ability.

Contadore looks awesome though, but again - one or even a few stages do not a TdF champion make. Lance Armstrong knows this and it wouldn't surprise me at all to see him play the "I'm a team player" card if Contadore stays tough and to tear into him opportunistically if he doens't.

Next few stages are going to be very, very interesting.

[David]

Garmin has some s'plaining to do! Have they said anything about why they screwed Hincapie?

I think Lance is done. I also think it would solidify his legacy if he now concentrates on helping Contador with the victory and the team victory.