Sunday morn...so far, Jim seems to have nailed it.

The front of the aluminum engine is behind the centerline of the front wheels.

The Transmission is kinda odd, it's behind the driver. It's not a true trans-axle but it's bolted straight to the rear differential

The proof is in the performance...the Corvette engineering team did a fantastic job with this car. (edit) I have yet to see any nasty anti-Porsche comments on the 'Vette forum thread Jim started...

Paul, so let's take a look at this for a moment. A thread is started about Corvettes on this Porsche forum. In post number three, you jump in with this, which is an inflammatory comment:

For the most part, in three pages of responses, nobody has jumped in flaming the car or any of that other nonsense you mentioned. A few have said that the car is not to their liking, but so what? They were polite about it. Hell, I said that I am damn impressed by the car. It's a hell of a car and heck of a performance bargain. I don't want one though. Does that make me a flamer? Are we all supposed to bow down to every high performance American car manufacturer in your view, with nary a negative comment made, for fear of being called pompous Porsche owners? Most of us here are far from it. We are car enthusiasts who happen to own or favor Porsches. For whatever reason, you seem to be anti-Porsche these days. If anything, that makes you the flamer here, because you bait people on this Porsche forum with your anti-Porsche rhetoric designed to get a rise out of some of us.

Like I said earlier in this thread, what the heck has gotten into you over the past few years - at least on this forum? You've become such a crab. Jeez, man, Milt's got nothing on you these days. :(

(I'll go check out that Corvette forum now.)

The world needs old curmudgeons. :D

:cool:
I just checked out the Corvette forum. I even signed up so I could do a search in OT.

I have to say, I am impressed by these guys. I take back what I said about the conduct of Corvette drivers on their forums when Porsches are mentioned. Many of them did mention they preferred their Vette's, but that's what I'd expect . Nothing wrong with that. :)

Anyway, back to the ZR1...I want a ride...on a track!

People have taken several shots at corvettes and corvette owners in this thread. Perhaps you were not paying close enough attention.

I'm pretty certain had not pwd pre-empted the flamers, there would be far more of it going on right now.

A few shots, but they haven't been exactly flaming. The Corvette forum I just visited had a few Porsche flamers, but for the most part, those guys seemed polite enough. That's what I base my judgment on, the overall conduct of the posters, and they did well over there.

I'd love to have one. But, it is a $100k car. Yes is will absolutely smoke my $20k 20 year old 911. But it is still $100 large. If my price point is this, then I would consider it, I guess. I do think the newest Porsche's are overpriced, even if they are much less then Ferrari's and Lambo's. Truthfully, I don't know what car I would buy in that range. Owning the Vette would almost be painful since you wouldn't be able to use any large potential of its power on the streets unless you like losing your license. I would prefer a car that gave up some of that world class numbers and offered some enjoyment in everyday living also. I guess someday.:)

As always, the real proof is in the world of racing, not eating up pavement at insane acceleration #s. If Chevy starts dominating sports car racing, than I guess they build the best car.

400 hp in the stock standard vette feels normal in every day traffic! If you drive it carefully it's actualy slower than most cars. It doesn't drive well at low speeds.

Show me a class that Corvette participates in that they aren't at least competitive in. Whether they are 'best' or not, they've been competitive for decades.

Gee, how'd they do in the ALMS? At Lemans?

Even Showroom Stock GT

Jeremy clarkson drools all over himself talking about this Vette in the top gear episode.

I'd like to see how they do with the "factory" team in GT2 this year. They haven't run yet in GT2, have they? The smaller Corvette team in GT2 is an also-ran, but that may very well be due to small team/small budget.

What is the competition? Anything remotely close to the power level of a bone stock ZR-1?

I just read that the Corvette team should debut at the next ALMS race at Mid-Ohio. It's reportedly going to use a body similar to the ZR1, as opposed to the wider GT1 body. It'll be powered this year by the 6.0 liter LS7 engine this year, and a 5.5 liter, 500 HP LS3 next year in response to rules changes.

GT2 class is currently dominated by Ferrrari 430's, and Porsche GT3 RSR's. BMW made a return this year with two brand new M3's and are very competitive. The Corvette team should be a front runner right out of the box.

Viper is the easy answer. There are lots of cars with more than 600hp, but few under $110K. Even the Mustang GT500 is 540hp now.

Ah, the good old days

Pratt & Miller is a great team with great drivers. They will be competitive. Sept in Atlanta should be fun.

Street cars?

I think the Ferrari Enzo and 599, Carrera GT, etc. - all of which are supercars that cost many times more than the ZR1. Good company.

Horsepower levels are insane these days (I mean that in a good way). My 300 HP 996 is just another fairly fast car these days - nothing special when it comes to today's serious performance cars. I mean, good lord, the Mustang GT500 has almost TWICE the horsepower of my 996. There are so many Mercedes these days with more than 500 HP, and a few with over 600 HP. Vipers, ZR1's, Z06's, etc. :rolleyes:

I like Corvettes :). Maybe my next car will be one.

If you were going to spend $100K, would you rather have a GT3 or a ZR1? I know what I'd go with. It'd be the Porsche, but the ZR1 is pretty amazing.

They are "a small block" just not "THE small block". They're still considered small blocks, they just aren't the same small block that started life as a 265 in the mid 50s.

Real enthusiasts get Corvettes, 911s, Miatas, Elises, and such.

I love my C4 Corvette -- but I'd sell my soul for a ZR1.

There are no more big blocks, so therefore there are no more smallblocks either.

It's "just" a V-8.

Or are all current production V-8s small blocks by default? I suppose it's just a matter of semantics, but to me there will only ever be one small block chevy engine.

Lots of literally stock production cars with over 600hp?

In production?

Please name them, because with the possible exception of some special edition Viper, i cannot think of a single one.

The Enzo, Carrera GT, etc are not considered production cars so far as i know, and they're no longer being made anyway, are they?

I think any of the AMG Mercedes that are XX65 are probably 600+.

Yeah, poked around a bit and the CL65 and S65 are also Turbo V-12s with over 600hp too.

According to Wikipedia the LT# engines are "Generation II" small blocks, and the LS# engines are "Generation III" small blocks, which makes sense.

Technically, the LS2 and newer are Gen IV but the differences are very slight

Forgot about those bad boys. :)

Bentley Continental GT Speed (600)
Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 (638)
Dodge Viper SRT-10 (600)
Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano (620)
Lamborghini Murcielago LP640 (632)
Maybach (612)
Mercedes SL65 AMG Black (661)
Mercedes SL65 AMG (604)
Mercedes CL65 AMG (612)
Mercedes SLR McLaren (617)

There are others, but those might be considered almost unobtainable by anyone other than the super elite due to their price and rarity: the Pagani Zonda, the Veyron, etc.

The 500 HP club is even larger these days.

Hey, on Saturday I was present when a street-driven car put down 1424 horsepower at 7800 rpm to the rear wheels on a chassis dyno.
God, what a sound!

That's like two ZR1s and one Lotus Elies in one engine bay!

I recently seriously considered a Z06 as as track toy/commuter... Used, those are in the very low 40s range now, can't beat 505 hp for that price... Until you start digging into the Corvette forums and find a LOT of threads about engines going kaboom... There's a very good one about a guy adding oil pressure sensors to his engine and mapping the pressure with GPS data while running on most of california's race tracks, it's very cool... and there seems to be an issue of oil starvation on sustained high-G left turns... I passed, because all I could afford was a used one and I'd want some serious warranty coverage... With regret, since I think one should own a big block V8 before oil runs out and we're all converted to electric cars ;-(

The ZR1 is even crazier.... Not sure if it's got the same issue or not, but it's out of my price range...

PS: I spent time on the Z06 forums and the corvette guys were very straightforward and not at all Porsche bashing.... The Gt3 came up a lot...

Friend Roger K, who was driving a '73RS lightweight when I first met him, now drives the AMG version of the CL65...His final Porsche was a '98 C2S....explaining why the Mercedes, he said: "If I'm going to drive a water cooled car, I want to drive one that was always water cooled." Made sense to me...;)

It is quite rare for the C6 Z06 to have oil starvation problems. With sustained loads of ~1.5Gs it is possible to overwhelm the PCV system and cause foam/aeration in the external tank.

GM addressed this in 2009 (with the ZR1 program) with increased capacity (10.75 qts vs 8.00 qts), increasing the pressure and flow output by 25%, changing the oil cooler to the driver's side of the pan, a different pan for better scavenging, and (ZR1 LS9 only) piston oil squirters.

Any and all of these upgrades can be easily retrofitted to any C6 Z06. And most are also available aftermarket.

You can even REALLY upgrade to a full muti-stage dry sump system if you are that paranoid.

If you'd like specifics, I can explain anything further. I wouldn't worry.

Please relist these vehicles with their MSRP included. :-p

> It is quite rare for the C6 Z06 to have oil starvation problems.

Not to disagree with you, you probably own a good one and have more experience than me, but I've read a LOT of such issues on the Z06 board(s) while I was doing my research. And it's not just 1.4+G turns.... Granted, it's like the RMS on modern porsche, an internet forum is likely to draw more attention to the bad ones over the good ones.....

But that is not so much the issue for me, it's the combo of that + warranty... If you can afford a new one, no biggie... If you cannot, you could upgrade the oiling system but you lose the remainder of your warranty.... and.... there is no way of knowing if the car you just bought is perfect or 5 miles away from the destruction, so you kinda want the better dry sump but you also want your coverage, just in case... And either way you eat the cost of a new motor....

>GM addressed this in 2009

I am pretty sure I read that even the 09s still had an issue. But you probably know more than me on this, so I won't go there....

>You can even REALLY upgrade to a full muti-stage dry sump system if you are that paranoid.

It's more that I thought it was a track ready car, like the GT3 is to the 911. It's not, by the time I buy the car (take my chances), upgrade the oiling system, the brakes, put heat shields to protect the CV boots from the brakes, ditch the seats, I'm probably better off with a Porsche... And that is not a diss of the 'Vette, just cold economics for me.... It can be made into a supercar, but that bumps it up a notch financially... In my range (06 Z06 money), I'm probably better off with a used Cayman S or base 997, which will run on track out of the box... Just not with as much HP ;-(