I thought about it, but figured why waste the time. Everyone here knows the ZR1 is much less expensive than any of the others listed.

I created the list not for a price comparison, but to show that there really are quite a few 600+ HP production cars out there.

Latest HOT ROD contains a feature on a '69 Camaro that is mostly ZR1...

From long winded old fart.....

Automobile Magazine ran an article titled "Dragstar" a couple of years ago. One of the writers was driving a Merz SL65 or similar. He was trying to decide what it was... right.. for. So he took it to the drag strip. I THINK it might be found online and it was a hilarious read. Also gave you some respect. Now, as long as you don't care about ... reliability.. and can afford one.. you got a CAR.
http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/convertibles/0504_mercedes_benz_sl65_amg/index.html

Not long ago on F-Chat someone told about a visiting driver instructor at one of the F Club track events. After a while he asked one of the guys if it was a joint event with one of the Corvette clubs. He thought it was strictly an F-Car event. He was informed that a LOT of the F-Car guys bought Corvettes as they were SO much more reliable on track. Result: Many more happy F-Car guys enjoying track time instead of trailering their broken F-Cars away. Of course, they still love their F-Cars and enjoy them on the street.

I owned a couple of hot Corvettes when I was young. Fun cars. For over 20 years I have been tempted to try to pry a 65 roadster from a neighbor who once showed it to me in his garage. It is still there covered with blankets and the engine still sitting nearby. I like a lot of things about the later Corvettes. I don't know if they are as cramped as the 80-90s cars but they were too small back then. Finally they have decent interiors [optional] and seemingly no longer creak and groan. A LOT of car for the money. I still like 'em - just don't own 'em.

I happened upon a letter to the editor in the new C&D. Guy wanted to know.. for real.. which was faster on the 'Ring: The newish GT2 or the new Nissan GT-R. He was gonna buy the fastest one if they could just tell him. The question really is... do we really care? Will this guy if he gets it? Did you watch the silly test Nissan GT-R vs Bullet Train on Top Gear? Jermey found the GT-R to be strangely uninvolving on the street. Even at.. gasp.. illegal speeds. Didn't like it that much. In a later show they put one on their airport-track and he loved it. BUT where are you gonna use these cars? Lots of times having a modestly powerful but SPIRITED sports car is a LOT more fun than driving somethng you simply cannot use on most public roads.

Last..old guys. I too am in that club. I have begun to realize that age tends to make you .. kinda.. crusty. Maybe..... really.. crusty. Not just me. Not just Paul. Not just my brother. LOTS of guys with more wrinkles than hair [well, hair where we might still like to have it]... You work like H all your life and play by most of the rules and you usually are quite controlled.. or restricted. Finally you don't HAVE to be nice to the ****heads. You don't have to ignore the insults. You don't have to hold you tongue and act proper. You can be an ASS if you like. People don't like what you say? OR simply don't understand that you are saying it tounge-in-cheek.. SO WHAT? Screw them!!! THAT, my friends is one of the few advantages of still breathing. It DOES beat being dead.... I mean, think about it.. young woman don't check you out anymore... young guys see you in your Super Porsche and think "What is THAT old fart doing in a neat car like that?!". You are essentially worthless with people waiting for you to die and hoping that they are on your short list as they look at your cars and "neat stuff". The only thing going for us "old-uns" is that we can sleep in as much as we want, screw off all day if we want, eat what we want and "screw 'Dr's advice' ", eyeball the female young-uns without having to think of clever lines to add, and ....well, just pee all over ourselves in our newfound and sometimes delightful saltiness. So, you think... "I won't be like that. I will be mellow.. and profound." Yea. Right. Just you wait. And remember.. it beats the hell outta dying.

Long live Corvettes. Thank GOD for Corvettes. Vipers are barely real cars and they are probably going the way of the eco-systems. Don't forget, Zora Duntov was a Factory driver for Porsche at Le Mans. Yes, really.. and that was when he was at GM. BTW, he HELPED Porsche by engineering some badly needed better handling in the Porsches of the day. They were clueless. [I have thought about doing a write up of "Porsche Engineering Travesties", but realized it would end up being a book. Just a start: How about when Porsche decided with all their engineering prowess, that they needed to figure out how to make the 906 handle. They went to a F1 race. They walked around the grid and looked at a bunch of the F1 cars. They ended up bying the complete suspension off of one of Colin Chapman's Lotus F1 cars. Right there at the track. Chapman was besides himself with glee. He knew how to turn a dollar when he saw the opportunity and the price they paid for that suspension exceeded anything he was gonna make racing that F1 car. BUT, with all the glory you have read about Porsche engineering... wouldn't you think they might have done it themselves? Kinda like when Duntov helped them out.. For free, as I recall. He was a real God. Of course, he knew it as much as anyone. But he was. God love Corvettes.


Speaking for the old-uns, if you don't like it.. well, piss on ya.
[I would insert one of those silly smiley faces here but it is TOO much effort to figure this stuff out and it's kinda more fun to be ...pissy. So.. :-> is the best you will get outta me.]
John Rice

John, this fellow "crusty old bastard" salutes you! You really should give thought to writing professionally.

What do you say we swap cars for a couple of weeks...you could use my Bullitt Mustang, I drive your GT2? (Just kidding)

I think you just gave a few young punks a history lesson...

John,

I don't know you but I like the way you think. I will be an old fart, for sure so I appreciate you giving me some idea on what to expect.SmileWavy

Funny how they put the Red Porsche Turbo riding ***** behind the ZR towards the end of that video?

Thanks John. Good writeup.

Paul, I sincerely hope you don't think I'm some young punk. Far from it. I am a middle aged guy who tries hard to NOT be an ass. Happy-go-lucky is what most people who know me would call me.

So, am I too young to act like a cranky old fart, or do I still have to behave myself? :p

I respect the speed that the new Corvette is capable of. It is a blazingly fast sports car, even if you ignore the comparatively affordable price. I just don't really like the styling, personally. I'm sure it would be a blast to drive though.

Young and old all depends on your viewpoint, I guess. Yep, you're still flying commercially...that, by having the license, makes you a "young punk"...;)
But hang in, you fly carefully...and you might make "crusty old fart" status yet!

John sure has a knack for writing that gives food for thought, doesn't he? Probably why I value our emails so...

New Corvettes are OK, I don't mind the styling but they just don't inspire the lust to own that some cars do. I've always wanted a Nautilus Blue '65 Stingray convertible w/ 327 fuel injection and 4-speed. (327/375hp). I mean seriously. If I was rich, it would be in my garage.

Not many new cars hit me in that emotional, non-rational place. It doesn't matter if they have 900hp and do 0-60 in .5 seconds. I don't give a schit. The new Porsche that I would buy is not the fastest one, it's the best all-around driver. (IMO). And I like the looks and way that it's put together+ the engineering. It's also pretty fast.

To each their own...

Just ran across this on YouTube:



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Oh, I saw 3 more ZR1's Friday around the GM proving grounds and the new cadillac cts wagon.

Interesting how they always compare a Porsche to most other cars as a straight line drag race?
Corvette can own the next red light, get it on a track and lets see!

It would be pretty close on the track (GT2 vs ZR1)
Wouldn't you think?

I'm glad to see that most users on here "get" the ZR1. Its simply one of the best performance cars in the market today. I'm always amazed by the number of guys who claim to be "car guys" but really are just brand snobs, only able to appreciate one brand. To me, if you are a car guy, you appreciate great cars, regardless of the badge on the nose.

+1000. same thing applies to racing. if you're a true racing fan, you can appreciate (not necessarily love) all forms of racing. drives me nuts when "F1 fans" knock on nascar, indy car, et al.

I'm definitely not a "one brand" car guy. I've gotten tons of schit for liking Fords and Chevys + the occasional Mopar back in the muscle car days. I've come to appreciate Porsches for their actual track performance as well as toughness over the years. The 200k mile 996 I just drove for 2 years made me a fan of their newer cars. I can't even imagine what an abused, 200k 10 year old 'vette would be like. The interior would look like a family of racoons lived in it.

To say that they are equal cars, (or that the 'vette is better), because they came out with a special model with insane performance doesn't wash with me. Remember, even the biggest POS car on earth smells good on the showroom floor. Test them when they're 5 or 10 years old against each other.

At any rate, the only legit performance test for cars like this is to go to the 'ring w/ a couple world class racers and see which is faster. 0-60 is meaningless in the real world of racing.

Interesting, in that video the Corvette's speedo was just hitting 200 when he was actually doing in the 170's. Are their speedo's that optimistic?

will this be a tube frame covered in vette glass or a Corvette? in either case the informed racing fan knows that rules are there to even out the competition and increase viewership so.....race results don't mean dick. it is a source of pride however that Porsche races road cars. Not even Ferrari did much of that in their glory days.

i think the latest vettes are very good looking cars (can't say the same for some recent F cars such as the 599) and would love to take a drive in one but damn why can't they get an interior that looks better than a first gen boxster? maybe if somebody over there would just sit in a GT3RS for a minute they'd get it.

The solution is obvious...buy both if you wish.

I've seen so many 200k American cars it's not even funny.

They grow on trees.

To the contrary, these are STREET cars, and in the real world of STREET cars, 0-60 is probably the most relevant performance statistic of all. (here in the US, anyway)

That struck me as odd too.

I really don't think Porsche interiors are anything special at all. They are really quite spartan. The interior of my just sold Catera is vastly superior to that of my 928, or any 944 i've driven. Earlier 911 interiors are just plain mediocre IMO. My new Saab 900SE turbo's interior is nicer than my 928s as well, by a longshot.

Interiors are just not a strong suit of Porsches.

And really guys, a top notch interior adds a ton of $$$ to the price.

To me, if i'm buying a 600hp car for 100k, i am not even thinking about the interior. If it was an issue, i'd just buy some nice recaros and get some aftermarket custom dash work done. Even if i spent $5k getting it all redone, i'm still waaaaaaay ahead of the game.

I think complaining about a ZR-1 interior demonstrates that the poster "doesn't get it."

Agreed...I once read a letter to the editor of a Mopar club newsletter...the guy was wondering why his slant 6 powered mopar was down on power and had started burning oil...at 430,000 miles!

USA cars can be very long lived, if taken care of. Probably can take more neglect than European cars. It just that the Porsche owner is more likely to see to it that service needs are met than a chevrolet owner.

I agree.

:confused::confused::rolleyes:


Read that again Snipe, see if you can find the inconsistency.


And go find a GT3RS to sit in. Do this and see if maybe you change your mind about whether i 'get it'. GM doesn't 'get it'. They are spec'ing out these cars as if their buyers are ex Pontiac Grand Am owners looking for a sense of familiarity.

Every part of the car you touch influences your sense of quality and tells you about the purpose of the car. Or at least it should.

and the early 911 interior is perfection. nothing but control surfaces and gauges telling you what is going on. no center console for your depeche mode tapes, no cup holder for your latte....just the tools you need to have one heck of a good time driving!


"top quality" interior...for sports cars at least, doesn't mean wood inlays and power seats and things like that.

Gotta agree with that...:)


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1248720870.jpg

But I must add that Cindy RAVES about the Bullitt seats (yeah, they're leather) She carried a small pillow for her lower back in the 911S, complaining that the sports seat gave her a back ache.

I could not possibly disagree more about early 911 interiors, starting with the HORRID seating position that leaves your face practically smashed up against the windshield.

Yet again this thread proves that one man's perfection is another man's disaster.

As far as having grand prix interior switches in the vette, all our p-cars have VW and audi switches in them too. To me it's a non-issue in both cars.

switches....switches!!!??? it's the whole darned thing!

definitely have never felt the face against the windshield thing in a 911. and i have short legs in relation to my torso and would think i'd be prone to such a thing. any particulars on the car that gave you this impression? wonder if the seating was odd?

Paul my wife is a trooper in re. the car. She made the ride to and from Staunton, VA (our longest trip in the car together) in GTS Nurburgrings with zero complaints. I was really impressed as she tends to prefer a cushier seating surface than i do.

If the ZR-1 interior annoys you, as i say, go spend $5k and have the whole thing replaced with custom stuff.

and there is the point in a nutshell....why couldn't GM just get it right from the start? the new vettes really are bad assed looking cars and it's such a bummer to scroll through pics drooling then get to the interior.

sure it can be fixed relatively easily (relatively being vs. 100k cost) but it's goofy that you should have to.

Because it's a $100,000 economy super car.

Whereas the GT2 is a (whatever amount) overpriced super car.

Sure Chevy could have added a $5,000 interior and then added $15,000 to the price- but then it would be a $115,000 car....and you would not have anything to complain about. ;)

To my eye, the Corvette exterior looks much "cleaner" than the GT2 in the video...all the way a better looking design. Interior? A judgement call. These days, I look for comfort first. If I can emerge feeling rested enough to play outside the car after a 500 mile drive, I'm happy...

If I suddenly came into a huge amount of $, the 1st car I would buy is a ZR-1, then a bunch of Porsches...

I tried, they wouldn't let me.:(

I would just give up my license to drive if I were to purchase a ZR-1. No way in he!! would I be able to restrain myself at stop lights. That exhaust note is very cool.

Every cop on earth would want to impound and confiscate that car. Cops love Corvettes and that thing is a felony waiting to happen.

In the great Mike Figgis film, "Internal Affairs", Richard Gere's dirty cop character drives a show-quality mid-'60s Stingray convertible. I thought that was impeccable car *casting*. :cool:

Does a Corvette has this much character?
I think not, this car wants to be driven primeval style :D

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1248753825.jpg

See, to me that's just a hideous interior. Totally lacking in....anything.

Again, to each their own.

For what it's worth, my 928S interior:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...rMarch06RT.jpg

Sniper it comes down to a minimalistic attitude I suppose.
A 928S has my total respect on the road! I’ve seen what they can do :D

I hate to admit this, My C6 is all black, with super dark grey wheels. In 1 night driving from Bakersfield home to the LA/OC border I got THREE warnings with out being stopped! The 3 times that I should have been pulled over I was 87-92 mph on Interstate 5.

Two of the CHP were on blind corners in the grapevine, both times they turned on their spot light to let me know to slow down. Third was in burbank, he gave me the flicker of his driving lights.

two other times I've driven by chp at well over pull over speeds with-out a warning.

My '67 fastback got me pulled over for 73 in a 65 (ticket) I was not even the fastest car on the stretch of road. Pulled over for missing taillight twice (the socket would fall out into the trunk. I was pulled over for speeding twice with warnings. One night around 12 I was tailed about 3 miles, I pulled into a gas station for 22 gallons of gas...Cops pull in and break out the flash lights...I thought that they're going to treat me like Rodney king! nope they crawled all over it. The asked 100 questions and told me that it was cool, but they wished I would have tried to run from them.