Why Was V-E Day In 1945 And Not 1944?

[charleskieffner]

Originally Posted by RPKESQ

Sorry, this diatribe is typical from someone who has learned about WWII from the History Channel.

History does not back up your opinions. Common misconceptions and urban myths are the basis for your opinions. Reality seemingly has no bearing on your worldview. It would be interesting to review the history education and study you have engaged in and accomplished. Care to share?

i mainly watched: "mr limpet goes to war"

huckelberry hound
scoobee-doo
chip und dale "those silly chipmunks"
beavis und butthead(urine kuzzins)
the jetzons
iwo jima starring john wayne


that is where i have gained all of my uber historical intelligence re: monty moron and his fubared circus across afrika und europa, bradley/clarks blunders etc.


NOW (4) QUESTIONS??

and there will be a QUIZ!

1) have the french EVER WON A WAR SINGLE HANDEDLY in this past century?

2) what was the last battle(battle) the french have WON SINGLEHANDEDLY in this past century?

3) how many french colonies still exist since the 1800's. exclude french polynesia cuz marlon brando screwed all the chicks there and its 1/2 american now!

4) why do AIR-BUSSES CRASH?

[tabs]

Originally Posted by charleskieffner

i mainly watched: "mr limpet goes to war"

huckelberry hound
scoobee-doo
chip und dale "those silly chipmunks"
beavis und butthead(urine kuzzins)
the jetzons
iwo jima starring john wayne


that is where i have gained all of my uber historical intelligence re: monty moron and his fubared circus across afrika und europa, bradley/clarks blunders etc.


NOW (4) QUESTIONS??

and there will be a QUIZ!

1) have the french EVER WON A WAR SINGLE HANDEDLY in this past century?

2) what was the last battle(battle) the french have WON SINGLEHANDEDLY in this past century?

3) how many french colonies still exist since the 1800's. exclude french polynesia cuz marlon brando screwed all the chicks there and its 1/2 american now!

4) why do AIR-BUSSES CRASH?

Ahhh because the frogs are drunk from drinking all that wine?

[charleskieffner]

Originally Posted by tabs

Those Wiberwindys were copies of Stalin's Organs...
In 1940 those Renault's were superior to Panzer Mk1 and MK2s which were the backbone of der panzer divisions. The Germans beat the Frogs with mass tanks instead of the piecemeal French and Brit approach.

When Hitler hit the IVANS in 1941 the MK 3's etc were out matched by the T-34's and KV1's. It was quality of leadership, training, moral and organization that served the Krauts so well in 41. A puny 37 was not going to penetrate the armour of a T34. Only the improved MK4 was able to hold their own against the Russkies.

One of the reasons the German offensive ground to a halt in the autumn of 41 was that the German tanks had NARROW treads and the IVANS tanks had wide treads which allowed them to slog through the mud. It was only when the ground froze that the Germans were able to restart their offensive.


Later Kraut panzer's had heavier guns and wider treads.

supply supply supply and uber fag goering wasnt up to the airlift task when surrounded. not enough tonnage to sustain forward motion.

but back on topic...................yeah right.

with the ardennes campaign, during the sleepy xmas lull in fighting, the bootomline was to extract as much time fighting to avoid any allies thrust into germany. it was a delaying tactic that damn near werked. 250,000 troops and mega tanks will punch a hole(bulge) in ANYJUANS LINE ANYWHERE ANYDAY then or now. thats a lot of firecrackers to light off.

anyway the ivans were making headway on the eastern front due to lend lease program. allies making headway on the western front. the southern front italy was pretty much wrapped up and the squeeze was applied.

had poop-ler(hitler) amazingly been taken out by an errant 500# or even by one of his generals at this stage, i think even with all odds against them, the nazis if they had regained power after a coup would have still fought to the death and delayed the war.

WHY? because the nazis in power knew they were deadmen because of all the jewish atrocities/the ivans were wayyyyy pissed, and getting dead was far easier than being taken prisoner.

why did mass quanities of germans surrender to the allies? cuz they knew their sauerkraut was cooked big time if caught by the ivans.

all in all in hindsight we really cant ask for any better ending than what we got. despite numerous blunders on the allies side, hitlers blunders etc.

i think we are damn lucky it ended when it did.

also i feel that the french italians, brits,ivans should be FOREVER GRATEFUL for the USA liberating them from the evil nazi's and every year on VE day we should get all of their WOMEN for 48 hrs!

[m21sniper]

There are so many what-ifs in WWII that these kinds of discussions can(and do) form the basis of 100 page, 10,000 post marathon threads on military sites.

[RPKESQ]

Originally Posted by charleskieffner

i mainly watched: "mr limpet goes to war"

huckelberry hound
scoobee-doo
chip und dale "those silly chipmunks"
beavis und butthead(urine kuzzins)
the jetzons
iwo jima starring john wayne


that is where i have gained all of my uber historical intelligence re: monty moron and his fubared circus across afrika und europa, bradley/clarks blunders etc.


NOW (4) QUESTIONS??

and there will be a QUIZ!

1) have the french EVER WON A WAR SINGLE HANDEDLY in this past century?

2) what was the last battle(battle) the french have WON SINGLEHANDEDLY in this past century?

3) how many french colonies still exist since the 1800's. exclude french polynesia cuz marlon brando screwed all the chicks there and its 1/2 american now!

4) why do AIR-BUSSES CRASH?

Well, I'll give you points for being honest in your sources of historical information. Your confession explains so very much!

As to your questions, please show the revelance to the current discussion. Or is this just on of the "good old boys" ignorant attack on France posts?

If we consider it the latter than the answers are.

1) The French, just like the US, have not won a war single-handed in the last 100 years.

2) The last battle the French won without any outside help is an interesting question. There were many in WWI and a few in early WWII and one in 1943 when they kicked some American ass, several in Vietnam, Algeria, Ivory Coast, Dafur and most likely the last was the rescue of hostages and destruction of some Somolian pirates.

3) The last colonies (or territories outside of mainland France) are Guadeloupe, Martinique, French Guiana, Réunion, French Polynesia, Mayotte, Saint Pierre, Miquelon, Wallis, Futuna, Saint Martin, Saint Barthélemy New Caledonia, French Southern and Antarctic Lands, Clipperton Island with a combined total of 2,624,505 population and 216,112 square miles of land. (Some of these have been aquired after 1899 and some include Corsica as a colony)

4) Airbus crashes have been for several reasons, the most common is pilot error. Which is, not surprisingly the same for most Boeing crashes (all facts from the NTSB). At least Airbus is not rying to move to China, like Boeing is.

Any more questions? I'm happy to help.

[m21sniper]

The last time the US won a war singlehandedly was 1989.

[tabs]

Originally Posted by RPKESQ

Well, I'll give you points for being honest in your sources of historical information. Your confession explains so very much!

As to your questions, please show the revelance to the current discussion. Or is this just on of the "good old boys" ignorant attack on France posts?

If we consider it the latter than the answers are.

1) The French, just like the US, have not won a war single-handed in the last 100 years.

2) The last battle the French won without any outside help is an interesting question. There were many in WWI and a few in early WWII and one in 1943 when they kicked some American ass, several in Vietnam, Algeria, Ivory Coast, Dafur and most likely the last was the rescue of hostages and destruction of some Somolian pirates.

3) The last colonies (or territories outside of mainland France) are Guadeloupe, Martinique, French Guiana, Réunion, French Polynesia, Mayotte, Saint Pierre, Miquelon, Wallis, Futuna, Saint Martin, Saint Barthélemy New Caledonia, French Southern and Antarctic Lands, Clipperton Island with a combined total of 2,624,505 population and 216,112 square miles of land. (Some of these have been aquired after 1899 and some include Corsica as a colony)

4) Airbus crashes have been for several reasons, the most common is pilot error. Which is, not surprisingly the same for most Boeing crashes (all facts from the NTSB). At least Airbus is not rying to move to China, like Boeing is.

Any more questions? I'm happy to help.

I would not really be too proud of French victories in WW1. It would be like saying I won $50 but lost $500 winning it.

[jluetjen]

Originally Posted by charleskieffner

you come trooping along thru the hedgerows and suddenly yer mincemeat RAT A TAT TAT! by a MG42. end result: todays HK-21/our M-60 all can trace roots back.

Actually I think ZIPPPPPPPP would be a better description of the sound...



Kidding aside;
I would agree that it came down to resources -- AKA: Logistics. The Allies didn't have enough fuel to drive the needed divisions into Germany before the Winter of '44. For political reasons they didn't focus their resources on either Monty or Patton, but instead gave both of them insufficient resources -- thus violating the concept of focusing resources on an objective. Personally I think that Patton was the better general for the job then Monty. Both had proven the ability to be effective, but despite his personal failings, Patton seemed to get things done faster -- which ultimate saves lives. Admittedly I'm a bit biased since my Dad served "with Patton" in the 3rd Army.

As a footnote, while Patton generally seemed to keep a cadre of key people on his staff as he moved from position to position, I haven't read to many good things about his Logistics officer in France except that he knew how to stay comfortable in France.

[imcarthur]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

The last time the US won a war singlehandedly was 1989.

You actually consider that a war?

Let's see:

The removal of a dictator that 'you' used to like & support & pay but he eventually turned out to be an embarrassment & a generally nasty guy after all - like so many other dictators that 'you' supported.

Please. If this was a war, than every time I hit the can after Mexican food could be classed as an International incident.

Ian

[m21sniper]

There were real bullets and all, yeah...it was a real war.

Had the US executed it half assed- like Iraq- it could have been a years long ugly mess, but Powell followed his own doctrine, and it was a slam dunk, but yes, it was a real war. People died.

More people died in Panama than died in the initial 2003 invasion of Iraq.

[charleskieffner]

ya know what? im about the nicest guy around here when it comes to good hearted ribbing. but being insulted by a FROMAGE BOY who really doesnt know his history nor where his freeking bread is buttered today, really chaps my hide.

1) YOU FROMAGE BOY are living FREE in FRANCE because of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA LIBERATING YER SORRY LILY WHITE SURRENDERING FROMAGE BUTTS during WWII! let alone yer dismal failure in vietnam.

it sure as hell wasnt the brits or the ivans that helped you out.

hell england was on their knees until we started the lend lease program and the atlantic convoys.

2) yer momma-daddy/grandparents survived WWII because they were liberated by the U.S. and you became the sparkle in your daddys eye.

3) had the U.S. not poured its industrial production/manpower/lives, into a successful invasion OF FRANCE after securing englands safety and afrika becoming free of nazi aggression, there would be no FRANCE TODAY!

it would be called FROMAGE - DUMKOPF-VILLE!

4) hell to go back even further...........the freeking FROMAGE FLEET is sitting in the bottom of GUAYMAS, MEXICO HARBOR as i write! and the mexicans have never bean known to have a good grip on miltary affairs EVER! hence an INTERNATIONAL HOLIDAY EVERY YEAR CALLED CINCO DE MAYO(or for us less intelligent history guys-CINCO DE DRINK-O). i have bean to guaymas harbor scuba diving. and WE ALL LAUGHED AT THE FRENCH FROMAGE FLEET getting its ass kicked by a bunch of rag-tag farmers and taco vendors.

5) you FROMAGE BOY obviously have bean watching the history channel wayyy to much or yer listening to pro-monte propaganda. he was a POMPOUS SELF SERVING IDIOT that got A HELL OF ALOT OF HIS/OUR MEN KILLED by his stupid actions in afrika/italy/and our favorite...........MARKET GARDEN! he actually extended the war by his blithering bumbling pompous actions.

6) sorry if i dont fit your warrior mold, and sorry if you dont like how patton or lemay conducted themselves(in the event of war they would be my role models and spiritual advisors along with geronimo and cochise and victorio). i will never go to war to be nice. im enough of a history buff(actually indian wars, wwii/korea/vietnam) to realize that the ONLY WAY YOU WIN A WAR IS KILL EVERYJUAN THAT OPPOSES YOU on your grounds, at your time, when the only outcome is sheer annililation of the enemy and your guarranteed success. you focus on an objective, with enough supplies, and YOU KICK THEIR ASS UNTIL YOU RUN OUT OF BODY BAGS OR BODIES!

funny how the u.s. marines in fallujah, once they were allowed to take their gloves off, there was no longer an insurgent problem.

funny how when we carpet bombed hanoi/haiphong for umpteen weeks the vietnamese came to the peace talks in paris. it is a historical fact had we continued bombing them, they would have surrendered as they almost were bombed back into the stoneage!

why do you think mcarthur was relieved of his command during korea. cuz he was willing to kill the hell out of EVERY KOREAN and CHINESE let alone the dumbass russians if they wanted to get involved more in korea. we were sick and tired of war after liberating the freeking world in europe and the pacific. same as why patton got shelved at the end of wwII. he knew what the hell was going on with ivan(stalin) and his bull crap.

you FIGHT A WAR TO WIN NO MATTER WHAT! you dont pack the SURRENDER FLAG along with yer bullets!

[tabs]

hell england was on their knees until we started the lend lease program and the atlantic convoys.

The Brits are always down on their knees that is the national past time.

[imcarthur]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

There were real bullets and all, yeah...it was a real war.

OK. I stand corrected. You must be right. So I guess when they surrounded Noriega's hideaway & blasted rock music that we could equate this major historic siege to what? Maybe Caesar's contravallation of Alesia?

Ian

[m21sniper]

You should instead be saying, "What a great job the US forces did of finding noriega in such a short amount of time, preventing any sort of insurgency from getting started. If only they were so fast and efficient at finding Saddam or Osama."

I'm pretty sure if you were there and had your Fking legs blown off or had gotten killed you'd have a different view point on whether or not the Panama invasion was a war or not.

We lost more men in the Panama invasion than we did in the 2003 Iraq Invasion or the 2002 Afghanistan invasion. I'm pretty sure the total death toll was very comparable to the first Gulf war as well.

Were they not wars either?

The US invaded a soveriegn country and removed the Gov't via force of arms in a lightning fast airborne and mechanized combined arms blitz.

If that's not a war, there is no such thing.

[imcarthur]

Wiki says: The US lost 23 troops, and 325 were wounded.

I am not negating the sacrifice of the soldiers. They are doing their job. I am merely casting doubt on the significance of the 'war'. The propaganda machine was in high gear. And I see it worked.

Ian

[m21sniper]

Thank you for admitting that it was a war.

[RPKESQ]

Originally Posted by charleskieffner

ya know what? im about the nicest guy around here when it comes to good hearted ribbing. but being insulted by a FROMAGE BOY who really doesnt know his history nor where his freeking bread is buttered today, really chaps my hide.

I am not French, error number 1.

Originally Posted by charleskieffner

1) YOU FROMAGE BOY are living FREE in FRANCE because of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA LIBERATING YER SORRY LILY WHITE SURRENDERING FROMAGE BUTTS during WWII! let alone yer dismal failure in vietnam.

it sure as hell wasnt the brits or the ivans that helped you out.

hell england was on their knees until we started the lend lease program and the atlantic convoys.

France surrendered in WWII just like the Belgiums, Dutch, Norweigans, Poles, the Baltic States, Denmark, etc. So according to you they were all cowards. Actually it was the Americans, Great Britain, Free Poles, Free french, French Resisitance and the Russians who helped liberate France. Error number 2 for you.

Originally Posted by charleskieffner

2) yer momma-daddy/grandparents survived WWII because they were liberated by the U.S. and you became the sparkle in your daddys eye.

My parents were 5 generation American by WWII. Error number 3 for you.

Originally Posted by charleskieffner

3) had the U.S. not poured its industrial production/manpower/lives, into a successful invasion OF FRANCE after securing englands safety and afrika becoming free of nazi aggression, there would be no FRANCE TODAY!

it would be called FROMAGE - DUMKOPF-VILLE!

Maybe, maybe not. Unless you can with 100% accuracy predict alternative outcomes for history, this is just your opinion. Not fact. Error number 4 for you.

Originally Posted by charleskieffner

4) hell to go back even further...........the freeking FROMAGE FLEET is sitting in the bottom of GUAYMAS, MEXICO HARBOR as i write! and the mexicans have never bean known to have a good grip on miltary affairs EVER! hence an INTERNATIONAL HOLIDAY EVERY YEAR CALLED CINCO DE MAYO(or for us less intelligent history guys-CINCO DE DRINK-O). i have bean to guaymas harbor scuba diving. and WE ALL LAUGHED AT THE FRENCH FROMAGE FLEET getting its ass kicked by a bunch of rag-tag farmers and taco vendors.

Which country has never lost a war? So how is this incident relavent?

Originally Posted by charleskieffner

5) you FROMAGE BOY obviously have bean watching the history channel wayyy to much or yer listening to pro-monte propaganda. he was a POMPOUS SELF SERVING IDIOT that got A HELL OF ALOT OF HIS/OUR MEN KILLED by his stupid actions in afrika/italy/and our favorite...........MARKET GARDEN! he actually extended the war by his blithering bumbling pompous actions.

Mashall, Ike and his staff approved Monty plan, so who were the idiots? And you are the one that stated what you had learned on the History Channel! Error number 5 for you.

Originally Posted by charleskieffner

6) sorry if i dont fit your warrior mold, and sorry if you dont like how patton or lemay conducted themselves(in the event of war they would be my role models and spiritual advisors along with geronimo and cochise and victorio). i will never go to war to be nice. im enough of a history buff(actually indian wars, wwii/korea/vietnam) to realize that the ONLY WAY YOU WIN A WAR IS KILL EVERYJUAN THAT OPPOSES YOU on your grounds, at your time, when the only outcome is sheer annililation of the enemy and your guarranteed success. you focus on an objective, with enough supplies, and YOU KICK THEIR ASS UNTIL YOU RUN OUT OF BODY BAGS OR BODIES!

You don't fit my mold of an history expert. How you would be in battle hasn't really been tested now has it? But you can believe all the big brave things about you that you need to in order to have your warrior dreams. I just haven't heard of any evidence for them.

Originally Posted by charleskieffner

funny how the u.s. marines in fallujah, once they were allowed to take their gloves off, there was no longer an insurgent problem.

funny how when we carpet bombed hanoi/haiphong for umpteen weeks the vietnamese came to the peace talks in paris. it is a historical fact had we continued bombing them, they would have surrendered as they almost were bombed back into the stoneage!

why do you think mcarthur was relieved of his command during korea. cuz he was willing to kill the hell out of EVERY KOREAN and CHINESE let alone the dumbass russians if they wanted to get involved more in korea. we were sick and tired of war after liberating the freeking world in europe and the pacific. same as why patton got shelved at the end of wwII. he knew what the hell was going on with ivan(stalin) and his bull crap.

you FIGHT A WAR TO WIN NO MATTER WHAT! you dont pack the SURRENDER FLAG along with yer bullets!

I see, you have trouble with facts so you revert to French bashing. OK. Yes, I understand my answers to your questions show just how idiotic your perceptions of France and the French are, and that frustrates you. Soluton, try learning facts instead of BS.

I am not French, I am an American, born, raised, served in combat. Did you serve?

I work in France for an American company. But I will admit I do like it here. Back in the States there are large numbers of ignorant rednecks who haven't a clue about the world. Hell only 21% of Americans own passports, but they are all self-made experts as to the rest of the world.

I studied and have a Masters in Military history. You obviously do not have any formal education in this subject. Yet you want to spout unsupported diatribes and expect them to be accepted. Maybe at the local beer joint, but not in any professional peer-reviewed history journal or venue.

Using your logic, Americans should be thanking France for saving their ass in the Revolutionary War every day of every year.

Viva la France!

[jluetjen]

Originally Posted by charleskieffner

1) YOU FROMAGE BOY are living FREE in FRANCE because of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA LIBERATING YER SORRY LILY WHITE SURRENDERING FROMAGE BUTTS during WWII! let alone yer dismal failure in vietnam.

Did you forget 1918? Once Russia bailed in 1917 the Germans were shifting troops wholesale to the Western front. After throwing themselves against the German lines for three years it wasn't clear that the British and the French would be able to stand-up to an offensive such as the Germans' Kaiserschlacht offensive if it hadn't been for the supplies and manpower from the US, as well as copying the defensive tactics that the Germans had put in place in 1917.

[imcarthur]

Hey Snipe

Did you get to see this in the Casco Viejo? George (the taxi driver in the photo) told us that this was Noriega's pad.

And trust me. I never hold a line soldier responsible for the stupidity of his commanders. And I also realize that it is part of a soldier's 'code' to support those said commanders. But it is very interesting to watch the spin from the politicians emerge & develop over the years.

Ian

[M.D. Holloway]

no offense guys but RPKESQ and TABS are spot on. I know little about these events save what my Dad has told me because he lived it. Looks like what they say is...is.