Moving to Colorado...

futuresoptions · 09-21-2009, 01:16 PM

Over the past month or so, I have been doing quite a bit of inner reflection and have came to the following conclusions...

1. I am tired of living in town, I want to move back to the country.

2. I am tired of the heat. I want cooler temps and no more 98 deg. days (Christmas included) or 82 degree nights with 90% humidity.

3. I need a change of pace.

4. I want to stay in a commercial management / maintenance role.

5. I want to be self employed.

So, I have begun to look for a ranch in the South / San Luis Valley of Colorado. An arid area of Colorado, but one which does have mountain views. I have found a few ranches in the 300-500 acre range and this seems to be about the size that I am looking for. Due to being predominantly unemployed over the past 3 1/2 years, capital and credit will be my largest obstacles. I have vowed not to let these obstacles stand in my way of reaching my goals.

That being said, I have decided to sell 300 camp sites within the ranch to finance the purchase of the ranch. I believe that I will have no trouble selling these sites locally, but I wanted to discuss the possibilities on this board before going to the general public. My reasoning for this is simple... I can sell to the general public and be subjected to spending time around folks with which I have no common interest, or I can sell to Pelicans and create something... I prefer the latter...

In one of my earlier posts, I suggested a Pelican/Sturgis type rally every year. I believe that this ranch could be the catalyst to make it happen. I would be willing to set aside 50 acres of the ranch on which a track, club house and parade ground could be constructed (you seeing the possibilities?).

So basically what I will be creating is a "State Park" of sorts, you will not own the land, but you will own rights to occupy your site (build a cabin and live year round if you wish) The rights that you purchase would be will-able to your children and grand children etc.. Sites will measure 100ft X 100ft. Prices will be cheap enough that a homeless Pelican could afford.

Without getting into all of the fine details, I just wanted to see what you guys thought about this idea. Would it be feasible for us or should I just look towards the public route.. Your ideas and comments would be appreciated.

TechnoViking · TechnoViking's Garage

FWIW, I think the track we built in Byers cost a little over $1M/mile. For your budgeting purposes

futuresoptions · 09-21-2009, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Smith

FWIW, I think the track we built in Byers cost a little over $1M/mile. For your budgeting purposes

Thanks for the info... I would prefer not to be involved with the development of the track/club house/parade ground. I would merely sit aside the acreage and allow motivated members to facilitate the funding/design/construction of the project. However, I would be willing to participate in any fund raising activities for the group and I would volunteer to cook at any event requested...(On second thought, you might not want me to cook a second time after tasting my food the first time

) In all seriousness though, I would be so tied up building the infrastructure up on the property that it would be impossible for me to take a leading role in the development of the track/club house/ parade ground.

j8tg · 09-21-2009, 02:07 PM

Have you looked into water rights on this land?

TG

futuresoptions · 09-21-2009, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j8tg

Have you looked into water rights on this land?

TG

There will definitely be no irrigation water available on the property so it will remain arid. Potable water will be from water wells. I believe that with water wells you are allowed to irrigate up to 1 acre of land in Colorado. That being said, the vast majority of the property would remain in it's natural arid condition.

sammyg2 · 09-21-2009, 02:49 PM

LOL almost sounds like a time share deal .

Gogar · 03:19 PM

I was born and raised in Center, Colorado, right in the middle of the area you are describing. You can google map it.

IMO you should check into the local economy, things are not bright. Actually, it's pretty dismal.

In addition, you will be giving up your heat and humidity for a few months of sub-zero lows, with many months in the spring of DAILY 30-40 mph winds. also, keep in mind that the average elevation in the San Luis Valley is about 7,500 feet. Most happy families who want to purchase a camp-site in the great state of Colorado don't want to go to a high mountain desert where it's 30 degrees farenheit with 40mph winds, and no access to goods or services.

Another consideration if you are considering a tourism destination is access: 4+ hours to the nearest airport, unless you've got your own plane, or a big briefcase full of cash. And, if you have a big briefcase full of cash, you'd just vacation somewhere that's actually cool.

In addition, access to the closest major metro is about 2 hours. Closest Porsche mechanic? 3.5 hours.

There's a reason that acreage is cheap. Even though I have a few fond memories of the area, I wonder if you should check into some other options in Colorado that you might find more agreeable long-term. I'll try to think of a few.

porsche4life · porsche4life's Garage

Owning land is great but unless you can support it with some other job I would look elsewhere.

Gogar · 09-21-2009, 03:24 PM

If you wanted to find equally beautiful (cough) acreage with half the distance to services and the airport, you might look in the South Park area of Colorado. Towns like Guffey, Hartsel, Como, Fairplay, etc. Similar access to nature, but closer to civilization. Racetrack, um, no.

porsche4life · porsche4life's Garage

You might also look in Nothern NM. Like around Eagles Nest.

jyl · jyl's Garage

How would a cabin on a 100' x 100' plot of unimproved land work out? Will there be central electricity, water from a central well, sewage? Or would each cabin have to supply its own generator/solar, personal well, septic? Is the property forested, will the plots be widely spaced, or on top of/in close sight of the others? Can you build a fence? How about a stockade? Road network or ad hoc 4x4 trails or fly-in access? Are there zoning laws/building codes that will get in the way? Does the campsite "owner" get a deed or recorded easement of some sort, that doesn't get wiped out if the ranch owner gets foreclosed? What sorts of rallies would be held there - noisy chaotic ones that will keep you awake all night? Etc.

From your side, after the one-time sale of camping rights, what continuing income source would you have? Not sure what the capital, carrying, and operating costs of the ranch would be, but how many rallies a year would you need, to support it? Can you really attract rallies without providing stuff like electricity, sanitation, lots of water, gasoline, general store, etc? Can you sell grazing and/or hunting rights?

Lots of issues, I'm sure you've thought of many more. I personally don't like arid country, that's just a personal taste thing.

futuresoptions · 09-21-2009, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammyg2

LOL almost sounds like a time share deal .

Somewhat, but not quite... I'll give you an example...

This is what I am thinking cost wise....

A campsite will run $1500. plus a $100. setup fee. Until I actually purchase the ranch, your $1500. would go into a trust. The setup fee would be non refundable and would pay for expenses associated with purchasing the property, travel etc...

Unlike a normal time share, you will not be "Sharing" your camp site with anyone... it will be accessible to you year round and you will have a key to the main gate of the property. The only thing we will mimic with a time share is a yearly maintenance fee of $400. This fee will afford me a small salary for maintaining the property, will keep lp in the tanks and will go towards construction/maintenance of the roads and community restrooms (like at a state park). You will be able to build on your camp site but there will be limitations to size and coloring of the exterior. I am thinking that minimum size camp shacks should be at least 12X12 with a maximum size of 24X24. You would have to provide solar power to your camp house. I think that these size limitations allow you to build slowly if desired and build up to the maximum size. The size limits also insure that the property would keep the look of a camp and insure that you have plenty of elbow room on your site to park, barbecue, play volleyball etc...

Over the years, I plan on putting in a couple basketball courts, volleyball courts, horse shoe pits, swing sets etc... I will also include a shooting range on the rear of the property (this is important because I would like a place to shoot, and persons coming in during hunting season will probably want to sight their rifles in before leaving to the place that they are going to hunt at)

So basically for $1600. ($320. a month for 5 months) you will get a camp site... If the SHTF you gotta place to go, if you want to hang out in your RV in Colorado for a while, you gotta place to go.. If you want to build a camp house and live like a hermit, you gotta place to go... you know what I mean...

Even if the group decides to not do anything with the 50acres that I am offering, I think that it would be cool, just to have a place to go to get away at a very cheap cost...

9dreizig · 09-21-2009, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gogar

, I wonder if you should check into some other options in Colorado that you might find more agreeable long-term. I'll try to think of a few You can certainly stay with me.

There fixed it for you

futuresoptions · 09-21-2009, 03:51 PM

Thanks for the input Jeremy, I will also start looking in those areas...

futuresoptions · 09-21-2009, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyl

How would a cabin on a 100' x 100' plot of unimproved land work out? Will there be central electricity, water from a central well, sewage? Or would each cabin have to supply its own generator/solar, personal well, septic? Is the property forested, will the plots be widely spaced, or on top of/in close sight of the others? Can you build a fence? How about a stockade? Road network or ad hoc 4x4 trails or fly-in access? Are there zoning laws/building codes that will get in the way? Does the campsite "owner" get a deed or recorded easement of some sort, that doesn't get wiped out if the ranch owner gets foreclosed? What sorts of rallies would be held there - noisy chaotic ones that will keep you awake all night? Etc.

From your side, after the one-time sale of camping rights, what continuing income source would you have? Not sure what the capital, carrying, and operating costs of the ranch would be, but how many rallies a year would you need, to support it? Can you really attract rallies without providing stuff like electricity, sanitation, lots of water, gasoline, general store, etc? Can you sell grazing and/or hunting rights?

Lots of issues, I'm sure you've thought of many more. I personally don't like arid country, that's just a personal taste thing.

Camp sites will be divided like a subdivision. "Owners" will choose their site, each site will be numbered. First come first serve on choosing sites. Sites would be solar powered for lights, wood stove or lp for heat. Community rest rooms will be provided for sewage/showers (Just like a state park) This would include an area for cleaning pots, pans, plate utensils... (if you dont have a self contained RV) You will be able to fence your campsite and lock it. Most of the properties that I have looked at so far are not forested, but they do have mountain views and are close to some fishing spots. I hope nobody thinks that I am trying to re invent the Club Med experience here because I am not... I believe that alot of folks like myself would like to have a place in Colorado to go to, call home base, and travel the state at their leisure... I am just trying to make it accessible and affordable.... Since the monies collected would be going into a trust, there will be no purchase of a ranch that needs to be financed. The ranch would be bought out right with no option of foreclosure. As far as what kind of rallies and how many, thats up to you guys... I would prefer Porsche/BMW type events... really don't know how crazy you guys can get....

futuresoptions · 09-21-2009, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9dreizig

There fixed it for you

LOL, I think I would be scared to with all the crazy ex's that might show up at anytime...

Eric Coffey · 09-21-2009, 04:19 PM

I'd check out Durango as well. Lots of nice areas/growth, and proximity to great ski resorts like Durango Mountain Resort (Purgatory), Telluride, Silverton, Wolf Creek, etc.
Also great fishing, hiking (Colorado Trail, Continental Divide Trail), golf, hot springs, etc..

Rich76_911s · Rich76_911s's Garage

There is this guy named Malcolm Forbes (think magazines) who tried this. I don't think he got a lot of people to sign up and join him out there. Do a search on Trinchera Ranch.

He did however make decent money on the land. Purchased it in the 70's for around $50 and acre and sold it in 2007 for over $1000 an acre.
That is about an annual return of 8.2%. But if you take into account all the improvements he did, I know he built a lot of roads and buildings, maintenance and taxes he might not have done so well.

I think you'd do better getting interest on a hunting forum than a Porsche forum.

I used to do the drive from Durango to Boulder quite frequently. One thing I always wanted to do was buy a ranch out there and turn it into a wind farm. The wind is going all the time out there. Once driving a land rover defender 90 on some hard-pack snow it literally spun the car around. I was on the outskirts of Sagauche on a very straight piece of road. So it wasn't driver inputs that led to the spin.

Maybe something around Fruita or Grand Junction might be more up your alley. Seems like a tough sell in any remote / sparsley populated area. These are not easy places to get to. Or maybe east of denver out past the airport. Not quite as romantic as southern colorado but more realistic to get customers.

Gogar · 09-21-2009, 05:15 PM

Yeah, as I was out jogging, I tried to think of a place where

"nature"

and

"motorsports"

have been enjoyed together. Couldn't think of anything.

ski wagen · 09-21-2009, 06:46 PM

I would recommend looking at the land use code of any counties in which you are looking (most counties in Colorado have them posted on line). What you describe sounds like it would quite possibly trigger subdivision approval requirements, which will require, among other things, proving there is an adequate water supply for the development of the property (and it will likely also involve satisfying certain waste water disposal standards). An "exempt" well permit in Colorado allows use for up to 3 single family dwellings, one acre of lawn/grass irrigation, watering of domestic stock and fire protection, on a parcel that is a minimum of 35 acres. If the parcel size is smaller in acreage or the number of dwellings served is larger, then you're going to need non-exempt water rights, which, to obtain reliable rights, will be exponentially more expensive than the land.