Ticketed - Photo for Right on Red, Fight it?

[Rusty Heap]

Any legal experience or know anyone who's successfully contested a photo radar ticket?

I just received in the mail at my P.O. Box a photo "citation" of turning right on a "red" light.

Reading on the web, many people just say to toss it in the garbage, as they can't prove that you did receive the citation through the mail so if you delay for 90 or 120 days it gets cancelled (but somehow I doubt that), and it IS a notice of Infraction but not a "ticket" and it doesn't go on my record. But ignore the first notice leter, then I'm sure they send a second then a Registered Letter to my P.O. Box (I don't get mail at my house.) Then a collection agency?

Location was south of Seattle and is for $124.

Any ideas if it's worth fighting it? It's about the principle not the money.

I've read several Interesting Articles off the web about the duration of yellow lights, and how cities are putting up cameras THEN shortening the yellow light time to increase city revenue - gee imagine that.



Most states supposedly have timed guidelines of 4 seconds, but some cities are setting the yellows as low as 3.1 seconds. This yellow light time of mine is set at 3.6 seconds per the text at the top of the photo.

The photo of my SUV shows it clearly past the stop line, and fully across the pedestrian walk-way 1/2 way through the turn at a 45 degree angle to the stop light, radar says 19 mph, I think it's a 35 mph zone (maybe 45 as it's a main hwy) there so at a yellow/orangish/red light, I'm supposed to slam on my brakes locking up the tires and possibly getting rear ended?

This was at 6:54 a.m at a nearly deserted intersection and the right hand turn is a wide sweeper corner not a hard 90 degree. I'm guessing the camera triggers when the red light is activated, I'm clearly past a safe stopping distance through the intersection and fully past the pedestrian walkway.

I honestly don't think I ran the red light for the turn but the photo says otherwise.

thoughts?

Big Brother is watching you.

"Protect and Serve" - yeah right

[masraum]

Well, you're in WA, and I'm in TX, but I checked about one that my daughter got here, and there's not much point in fighting it. Just pay it and stop. Here, they don't care who was driving. It's based on the cars registered owner.

[red-beard]

I got one when I turned right on a green arrow. (Jones Rd and US 290). They didn't care.

[Burnin' oil]

In California, there is no violation if you enter the intersection on a yellow. I don't know what Washington's law is. Based on your description, it sounds like they have a photo of your vehicle across the limit line when the light is red. Do they have proof that the light was red when you entered the intersection? Otherwise, I don't see how the photo would be relevant.

[m21sniper]

Throw it in the trash and see what happens. I suspect nothing happens.

[rick-l]

The title says right turn on red.

Around here they sample the vehicle speed and if it never goes to 0 for .x seconds the video is saved. Then a policeman reviews it and if he does not see a complete stop the thing is issued.

Did you come to a complete stop?

[Looking_for_911]

Been told by more than one traffic cop that we're expected to stop on the yellow light and not chance making it before the red illuminates.
I asked one that very question, "Am I supposed to slam on my brakes risking being hit in the rear end just to stop before the red lights up" and was told I could talk to the judge about it as he "cheerfully" handed me my ticket.
Here we can turn right on red - after a stop - but if you don't stop they can and will cite you for running the light.

[masraum]

Here, you can go online and pull up a few picture of your car and the video. Not much arguing with video.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Always fight it.

[gtc]

Dave, the Seattle red light tickets I've seen always include an address for a website where you can see video of the alleged violation. Does yours have this?

The most common reason for dismissal is turning right on red. So it would probably be easy to get dismissed.

See more here.

[Noah930]

Here in California, to avoid the confusion regarding a legitamate right turn on red following a complete stop, there's supposed to be a video tape of the transgression, where it's clear that the vehicle has not come to a complete stop prior to making the turn. Somewhere on the ticket is an explanation that you can view said video prior to making a decision on whether or not you want to fight the ticket. No FHE with the process, but it's what I've heard from multiple co-workers who have had the unfortunate opportunity to do so.

[Rusty Heap]

Yes the citation has a website to log into and access an address to view the video..............but I'm not clicking on it as I'm sure that triggers a "he viewed the video" log.

Sorta hard to defend a "I didn't get the ticket in the mail" if the video was view via my ISP.

thanks all for the input. Just pisses me off is all and all today I've been paranoid at every stop light, stop sign, and such to come to a complete and pause several seconds stop Stop STOP with zero tire roll.

[teenerted1]

Originally Posted by Rusty Heap

Yes the citation has a website to log into and access an address to view the video..............but I'm not clicking on it as I'm sure that triggers a "he viewed the video" log.

Sorta hard to defend a "I didn't get the ticket in the mail" if the video was view via my ISP.

thanks all for the input. Just pisses me off is all and all today I've been paranoid at every stop light, stop sign, and such to come to a complete and pause several seconds stop Stop STOP with zero tire roll.

you have a right to view the evidence against you. get yourself to the site and look. if you don't look and ignore how can you prove your innocence?

[John Rogers]

They have gotten more accurate with their aiming devices here in San Diego I think? There is an intersection at Aero Drive and Ruffin Road that I regularly go through on the right when going to teach classes at UOP. The right turn lane has an "empty" lane with cross hatches between it and the regular right side traffic lane so we don't get caught. When I go to dinner though I am amazed at how many left turn drivers get photo'd and so far the most I have seen is 7 in a row!

[cstreit]

A few months ago they installed a camera at a nearby intersection here. Seems it triggers when you get even a wheel on the white "stop here" line. So I rolled to a stop for the red. THe camera takes a picture. WTF? I stopped.

Determined to be a martyr, I backed up. *flash*
Rolled forward *flash*
backed up again *flash*
rolled forward again *flash*
...
repeated this 10 times. Figured if they sent me the citations I'd ask the judge just HOW did I manage to run the same red light 20 times in under a minute? Perhaps the cameras were at fault. Then I would write the newspaper and local news, make a BIG deal out of the scam.

The bastards were on to me and never sent me the tickets.

[LakeCleElum]

If you were cited in error, fight it. If you committed the violation, MAN UP and pay.

[rick-l]

The red light cameras here trigger with a radar return pointed at the white line. The pictures I've seen show a picture 200 milli seconds after the light goes red and one 700 milliseconds later.

They show picture of the red light with the car behind the white line and one with the same red light and the car in the middle of the intersection. Pretty convincing.

They say each camera brings in about $1,000,000 per year. The evidence so damming (I can't see the lights being manipulated) and the amount they bring in pulls my sentiments in two directions.

[BLEW911]

Dave,
If you've researched this on the web you know some of these "tickets" are just an attempt to get you to admit it was you driving. As for the IP address worries.....use another computer like at KINKOS or the library to see if you are recognizable. Then take it from there.

[jyl]

devils advocate

If you were going 19 mph, wouldn't have been any drama stopping for the light. And since the road was deserted, no issue being rear ended either. I think you should view the video or photo evidence. I suspect you'll see that you did indeed run the red light. Let us know what you find out.

Any legal experience or know anyone who's successfully contested a photo radar ticket?



I just received in the mail at my P.O. Box a photo "citation" of turning right on a "red" light.



Reading on the web, many people just say to toss it in the garbage, as they can't prove that you did receive the citation through the mail so if you delay for 90 or 120 days it gets cancelled (but somehow I doubt that), and it IS a notice of Infraction but not a "ticket" and it doesn't go on my record. But ignore the first notice leter, then I'm sure they send a second then a Registered Letter to my P.O. Box (I don't get mail at my house.) Then a collection agency?



Location was south of Seattle and is for $124.



Any ideas if it's worth fighting it? It's about the principle not the money.



I've read several Interesting Articles off the web about the duration of yellow lights, and how cities are putting up cameras THEN shortening the yellow light time to increase city revenue - gee imagine that.







Most states supposedly have timed guidelines of 4 seconds, but some cities are setting the yellows as low as 3.1 seconds. This yellow light time of mine is set at 3.6 seconds per the text at the top of the photo.



The photo of my SUV shows it clearly past the stop line, and fully across the pedestrian walk-way 1/2 way through the turn at a 45 degree angle to the stop light, radar says 19 mph, I think it's a 35 mph zone (maybe 45 as it's a main hwy) there so at a yellow/orangish/red light, I'm supposed to slam on my brakes locking up the tires and possibly getting rear ended?



This was at 6:54 a.m at a nearly deserted intersection and the right hand turn is a wide sweeper corner not a hard 90 degree. I'm guessing the camera triggers when the red light is activated, I'm clearly past a safe stopping distance through the intersection and fully past the pedestrian walkway.



I honestly don't think I ran the red light for the turn but the photo says otherwise.



thoughts?



Big Brother is watching you.



"Protect and Serve" - yeah right

[Zef]

If your at fault...take it...and pay. If not, throw it.