Recently Discovered Ill Affects of Bio-Diesel

M.D. Holloway · 10-06-2009, 08:50 AM

Bio-diesel has several known issues;
1) poor low temperature performance - gelling
2) poor oxidation stability - looses punch, increased varnishing
3) very susceptible to biological infestation
4) very sensitive to water

We are starting to see other bad effects of bio-diesel.
While bio-diesel has some of the same properties as regular petroleum diesel, it does differ on the molecular level.

That difference has become a problem. The bio-diesel (methyl ester) actually has been shown to dissolve certain materials that were designed to be resistant to diesel fuel.

Fuel storage tanks are typically made of fiber-glass which is glass fibers with a polymer resin binding the fibers. Bio-diesel has been shown to actually degrade the fuel tanks over time by partially dissolving the binding resin. In fact, fuel blend with as little as 20% bio-diesel (B20) has been shown to degrade the tanks. Often the material will look like a biological slime yet when tested in our lab, there may not be a biological issue present. This can often confound the lab and the end user.

Another issue that has become apparent is the degradation of fuel filters. Fuel filters are typically made of a cellulose material (sometimes paper) which is held together by a glue. Bio-diesel may actually be breaking the glue down and destroying the fuel filters. We have seen this in several samples of filters that have been sent to me.

You would think that the folks who decided on bio-diesel to begin with would have thought this through - I am not sure they did.

You would also think that the customer would have asked the question "Can bio-diesel be safely used with our fuel filters and storage tanks?" - I am sure they did not ask that question.

Is there a solution? Nope - other than to stop using bio-diesel or invest in steel tanks and polymer free filters - good luck with that!

Also consider this - we have seen many samples come into my lab that the customer thinks it is a B20 and it tests out to be a B30! These tests can be run but it does cost. Some jobbers actually use bio-diesel (up to 2%) as a lubricity aid for ULSD fuel.

Something to consider.

looneybin · 10-06-2009, 09:56 AM

brought to you by the same folks that thought turning our food (corn) into fuel was a good idea

javadog · 10-06-2009, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LubeMaster77

You would think that the folks who decided on bio-diesel to begin with would have thought this through - I am not sure they did.

You have more faith in America than I do. Nobody thinks things through. Think about how many things get put on the market, only to be pulled after they figure out that they are worse than what they replaced. Gas additives, pharmaceutical products, food addditives... the list is quite long.

We are a country of (mostly) idiots led by a group of clueless, corrupt jackasses in Washington that I would not trust to help me to decide whether I wanted mayo or mustard on my hamburger at lunch.

Your experience may vary,
JR

PS. Keep up the good work. After reading your posts over the years, it is clear to me that you know your business. This is getting to be a rare thing. Just make sure that managment doesn't replace you with a 25-year-old idiot, for half the salary.

legion · 10-06-2009, 10:12 AM

Define "bio-diesel".

It's a term that is used to describe two different things.

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by LubeMaster77

You would think that the folks who decided on bio-diesel to begin with would have thought this through - I am not sure they did.

And the same thought would be true of ethanol...the law of unintended consequences always comes out.

Anyone remember gasohol (3-10% methanol) of the late 1970's? It was corrosive and produced formaldehyde in the exhaust. E10 is another crappy attempt. What you are supposed to have it E10/G90 (10% Ethanol, 90% Gasoline). In practice, you end up with E10/W10/G80 (10% Ethanol, 10% Water, 80% Gasoline), since the alcohol likes to absorb water.

The 10% is corrosive. It absorbs a lot of energy as it vaporizes during the combustion reaction. E10/G90 should only lose about 3% in gas mileage vs G100. In practice, a 15-20% loss is common, due to the water content.

gtc · gtc's Garage

Biodiesel can also cause an increase in fuel system deposits, as well as loosen preexisting deposts originating from distillate fuel, if the tank is not cleaned before switching fuels.

There is also a tendency to have higher fuel dilution in the engine sump when running biodiesel, due to it's lower volatility.

dd74 · 10-06-2009, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LubeMaster77

You would think that the folks who decided on bio-diesel to begin with would have thought this through - I am not sure they did.

You would also think that the customer would have asked the question "Can bio-diesel be safely used with our fuel filters and storage tanks?" - I am sure they did not ask that question.

Out here, you're asking an awful lot of the Hollywood stars who don't care as long as it's cool to have their Mercedes smell like french fries while sporting the Darwin fish decal on their back bumper, opposite the Obama "hope" sticker.

T77911S · 10-06-2009, 10:52 AM

not to mention people are gaining weight. smelling all that french fry grease has increased the sales of fries. im getting hungary just thinking about it

legion · 10-06-2009, 10:54 AM

First the Hapsburgs get Hungary, then the Ottomans, and finally the Germans.

pwd72s · 10-06-2009, 10:58 AM

The "green" city of Portland, OR ran biodiesel in their city rigs. When engines failed, they tried to get Ford to fix them under warranty. Ford said "no way".

Don't know how the dispute ended...

Jeff Higgins · 10-06-2009, 12:03 PM

"Bio diesel" has the same nice ring to it as "organic" does for the hand-wringing ninnies of our world. If it has "bio" or "organic" in the name, it must be enviro-friendly, right? Right?...

pwd72s · 10-06-2009, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by looneybin

brought to you by the same folks that thought turning our food (corn) into fuel was a good idea

Now mandatory in Oregon...10% gasahol. Of course, they don't call it gasahol.
Nope, it's "oxygenated fuel"...

sammyg2 · 10-06-2009, 01:59 PM

If the oil refiners were smart they'd put green food coloring in the gasoline. That way the tree huggers could feel smug about burning regular old gas.

hay, if it's green it has to be good, right?

boba · 10-06-2009, 02:21 PM

OIL is organic!

teenerted1 · 03:02 PM

french fry grease isnt Bio-diesel...it is waste oil. that stuff i have no problem with since it is putting something that normally goes down the drain to use.

i think bio diesel comes from organic sources that arent petroleum based. sorry to hear that stuff sucks. should have know if its claimed to be green its got problems that werent evident in the first place.

now ethanol... i have real issues with that crap

EarlyPorsche · 10-06-2009, 08:45 PM

None of that is really a "big deal." The gelling can be a big deal but most who run bio-diesel know how to get around that (run higher diesel concentration). The rest don't really matter to most people because its a tough diesel engine. Even the lubrication stuff doesn't matter because because anyone who converts to bio diesel changes their own oil or knows that it should be changed so any alleged contaminants will be removed anyway.

DanielDudley · 10-07-2009, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dd74

Out here, you're asking an awful lot of the Hollywood stars who don't care as long as it's cool to have their Mercedes smell like french fries while sporting the Darwin fish decal on their back bumper, opposite the Obama "hope" sticker.

MMM, Fondue.

notfarnow · 10-07-2009, 05:55 AM

Keep in mind that not ALL biodiesel is made directly from "food" crops. Lots comes from used/rendered oils... there's even a place in Nova Scotia that makes it from fish oil from the local fish processing plant. In those cases, I think it makes a ton of sense... I like the idea of using "waste" as fuel. I'm not so keen on farming crops for fuel. Biodiesel from algae is looking promising though, from what I've read.

I've avoided using biodiesel due practical reasons, the biggest being fuel filter plugging. The climate here is too unpredictable, and I know people who try to run b20 in the winter and end up with plugged filters. No thanks, Mrs Notfarnow is NOT tolerant of that nonsense... our car has to work day in, day out.

I do find it funny how much people LOVE to hate biodiesel & alternative fuels. Kinda the way greenies get their panties in a knot over Hummers and Ferraris. Same $chit, different pile... I guess it's easier to get worked up about what OTHER people do than it is to be comfortable in our own shoes

dd74 · 10-07-2009, 08:41 AM

The thing is biodiesel has been touted as the next clean and particularly important, renewable fuel source. And that gets people interested. No one is blasting its potential to benefit the environment; what is being ridiculed is the fact that because of a lack of R&D, biodiesel has been found to harm engines, or aspects of engines.

I think it's cool (when you can find a station in L.A.), but without the research and infrastructure for availability of the fuel, not to mention the strange back-alley repair shops most have to patronize to obtain biodiesel conversion kits, there's really no way I'd put it on any modern diesel I would own.

scottmandue · 10-07-2009, 11:44 AM

Are we still using the same gasoline that Henry Ford ran in the model T?

Couldn't bio diesel be further developed and improved?