Marriage: when is enough enough?

[dhoward]

Three-way.

[Rick Lee]

I've only been married for two years, but I find the day to day stuff no work at all. Hardest thing for me is being on the road, away from my wife. But then when we do have a fight, it tends to be about serious issues like money or buying a house and it doesn't usually get resolved. We just get tired of being angry at each other and kick it on down the road. Recently I found out she's spending $1000 per month on clothes and shoes she never wears and just stockpiles in closets. She has the money and never carries a cc balance. But she's crazy defensive when I bring this up to her. Still trying to figure out where this one is leading.

[Axeman]

Move on and be happy. I wish my parents would have divorced when I was a kid, they didn't of course and I'm badly screwed up because of it. Relationships are not worth it in my opinion, no matter how great it is at the beginning it always goes downhill from there (especially the sex part part). Here's the best definition of marriage I've ever heard:

"Marriage is 2 people sharing problems they wouldn't have if they were single"

Good luck to you no matter what you decide!

[Joe Bob]

When one files papers....kinda gets the ball rolling.

[Dueller]

To add to legion's comments, in the course of of individual counseling I discovered what were my real priorities in a relationship and did an honest inventory of what my wife was capable of bringing to the relationship table, Fortunately for our relationship she had a lot to offer that was consistent with my needs. And vice versa.

I also discovered that most of what we were fighting about was not what the real issues were...we were avoiding the real issues. Once we were able to be candid about the real issues we discovered that we were able to resolve them to our mutual satisfaction rather than delving into a tit for tat scorekeeping style of fighting.

Learning to communcate on an honest level was a difficult task for both of us. To be able to express your feelings or listen to another person express theirs without being personally offended and lapsing into a battle of insults or hostility is such a relief. An example of our patern would be along the lines of me saying something about a child's actions/behavior that I disagreed with would be interpretted by wife as me saying her kid's were horrible people or she was a bad mother. Ostensibly I would just be expressing my concern as a caring stepparent but in reality I could be pretty hostile and mean-spirited. And we would be off to the races with anger and hurt feelings and a screaming match.

[Dueller]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

I've only been married for two years, but I find the day to day stuff no work at all. Hardest thing for me is being on the road, away from my wife. But then when we do have a fight, it tends to be about serious issues like money or buying a house and it doesn't usually get resolved. We just get tired of being angry at each other and kick it on down the road. Recently I found out she's spending $1000 per month on clothes and shoes she never wears and just stockpiles in closets. She has the money and never carries a cc balance. But she's crazy defensive when I bring this up to her. Still trying to figure out where this one is leading.

Money is power in most relationships...an imbalance of power is deadly to survival of a relationship.

[jhynesrockmtn]

So you owe it to them, even at the expense of your happiness, to do everything possible to keep it together and working in a reasonably functional way, for their benefit.

This is simply a bad oversimplification. At the expense of your happiness? Bull. Kids are just as bad off if not worse off in a home where parents don't get along, fight, don't care for each other, etc.

I stayed in my relationship way too long to the point where I was angry, bitter, lonely, etc. My kids have seen a huge difference in me becoming the much happier person I am today after we split up and my ex and I get along better than ever. If her life wasn't a f'up mess the kids would be happy as clams.

Yes, it's hard on them but in some situations it's for the best. I think it's harder for older kids who are very used to a routine, two parent household, all of that. My Fiance's son was 4 when they split and he doesn't know anything but his folks living apart and parenting him that way.

Every situation is different but the stereotypical response to stay together for the kids is a load of crap.

[KevinP73]

Originally Posted by charlesbahn

Try taking a trip, just the two of you, for a week in a car or a boat (a small vehicle). After that time the answer will be obvious. Either you will rekindle the flame, or you will know that you dislike each other so much it won't continue.

I tried this one time and it really didn't work. In fact when I finally let her out of the trunk she was madder than when I locked her in there.

[imcarthur]

My history: Divorced after 13 years. 2 kids – 6 & 9 at the time. Our marriage was the Dead Zone but we were very good parents. The marriage was not revivable. I made feeble attempts but nil response from her. It was years too late. I was on the road a lot & that was my alter ego. I never strayed but I enjoyed myself. The hifi business then was . . . well . . . fun. Anyway . . . she announced that we were no longer married & started socializing. I went ballistic. A separation of 6 months (we alternated weeks in the house with the kids) was beyond living hell for me & hell with a dose of partying for her. I was standing in the Las Vegas airport heading home after a convention when I decided to end it.

My kids survived it all. Small scars - yes. I bear the scars of parents that didn’t divorce & probably should have. My kids were never used or drawn into the fray. But they felt it & saw it. They were shuffled back & forth while younger but the early teen years slowed down their visits to me. Kids can only have one home. I missed a lot of growing up. That is what hurts me the most. Interestingly, they both married fairly young. We shall see.

Along the way I gained a new wife & stepson who was very scarred by divorce. It happened when he was 3 years old. No earth-shattering or nasty event but it traumatized him which led to serious issues later in his development. He was kicked out of school at 8. He trashed the principal’s office & bit a gay teacher. A lockdown school for a year plus psychologists & a seriously whacked (but very good) psychiatrist gave him the defense mechanisms he needed. His adolescence was hell for us. He was kicked out of another school. A long, long story. He came back to reality gradually & normalized by around 19.

So yes, divorce can scar kids. In the long run, we all came out of it but it was not easy & it was never foreseeable. Our success was based on our ability to cope & to compromise with all of the twists.

So think long and hard about this decision. But I don’t believe a dead marriage is a healthy place to be for anybody.

Ian

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by KevinP73

I tried this one time and it really didn't work. In fact when I finally let her out of the trunk she was madder than when I locked her in there.

Maybe you put the duct tape on the wrong places...

[TechnoViking]

As Dr. Phil would say: "It's better to be from a broken home than live in a broken home".

When my ex and I got divorced I was petrified it would screw up our kids. The court-mandated class we took told us about a recent study that has shown children from low-conflict divorces turn out as healthy as kids from low conflict marriages. Children from high conflict marriages and high conflict divorces turn out poorly.

In other words, its the fighting, not whether you are divorced or married that makes the most difference to your kids.

For us divorce was the right call. We are both much, much happier now. We get along great and are successful co-parents. Happy parents = happy kids.

We've got a long way to go, but the notion that divorce has to hurt your kids is BS.

[DByers]

Brad,
you have a pm

[buttjoint]

Thats really the ****s, I wish all of you the best.

[KevinP73]

Originally Posted by nostatic

Maybe you put the duct tape on the wrong places...

I guess that may be possible, the b!tch had chewed nearly all the way thru the spare tire before I let her out.

[Nathans_Dad]

I'm probably not going to be a very popular guy in this thread after I say this but here goes.

I think that once you bring kids into the world, you sign on to stay until those kids are out of the house.

Somehow our society has become selfish in how we look at the world. Everything is about how happy you are or how fulfilled you are in your relationship (I do not mean you to refer to the OP, just using you to refer to the generic you).

Dating relationships are about you, marriages are about us.

Now then, if there is true abuse going on, that is obviously a different situation. Also, both partners have to be on the same page. It won't work if you want to stay and she doesn't.

Myself, when I got married I knew I was signing on for life. No escape hatch, no ejector seats. That was 11 years ago.

Flame away.

[HardDrive]

Originally Posted by imcarthur

My kids survived it all. Small scars - yes. I bear the scars of parents that didn’t divorce & probably should have. My kids were never used or drawn into the fray. But they felt it & saw it. They were shuffled back & forth while younger but the early teen years slowed down their visits to me. Kids can only have one home. I missed a lot of growing up. That is what hurts me the most. Interestingly, they both married fairly young. We shall see.
Ian

My parents marriage was effectively over by the time I was 12. But they 'kept it together for the kids'. What a freaking nightmare. Absolute nightmare. Our homelife was a trainwreck. My parents were both so unhappy with their homelife that they escaped into their own lives outside.

If you and the wife can find a space to make a marriage again, then great. I hope you guys work this out. But please, please, don't stay in some toxic marriage, because all you are doing its raising your children in a toxic soup. I grew up with it, and I still see how it effects me to this day.

[Joe Bob]

Originally Posted by Nathans_Dad

I'm probably not going to be a very popular guy in this thread after I say this but here goes.

I think that once you bring kids into the world, you sign on to stay until those kids are out of the house.

Somehow our society has become selfish in how we look at the world. Everything is about how happy you are or how fulfilled you are in your relationship (I do not mean you to refer to the OP, just using you to refer to the generic you).

Dating relationships are about you, marriages are about us.

Now then, if there is true abuse going on, that is obviously a different situation. Also, both partners have to be on the same page. It won't work if you want to stay and she doesn't.

Myself, when I got married I knew I was signing on for life. No escape hatch, no ejector seats. That was 11 years ago.

Flame away.

Let's see what you say in 5-6 years.....

[Nathans_Dad]

What will 5-6 years do?

Is there a born on date for marriages? Do they turn skunky at 15 years or something?

[on2wheels52]

Brad, am sorry to hear of your difficulity, 16 years together is a pretty serious investment of time. I'd suggest going to a third party for 'marriage counseling'. See what their take is on your situation. It didn't fix my first but it it helped with my perspective on what was going on.
Some locales still debate legalized gambling, I can't think of a bigger one than saying 'I do'. I hope all comes out ok for you.
Jim

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by Nathans_Dad

I'm probably not going to be a very popular guy in this thread after I say this but here goes.

I think that once you bring kids into the world, you sign on to stay until those kids are out of the house.

Somehow our society has become selfish in how we look at the world. Everything is about how happy you are or how fulfilled you are in your relationship (I do not mean you to refer to the OP, just using you to refer to the generic you).

Dating relationships are about you, marriages are about us.

Now then, if there is true abuse going on, that is obviously a different situation. Also, both partners have to be on the same page. It won't work if you want to stay and she doesn't.

Myself, when I got married I knew I was signing on for life. No escape hatch, no ejector seats. That was 11 years ago.

Flame away.

If that is working for you then more power to you. I know in my case I could have stayed married. Truth be told very few *have* to get divorced. But I don't see the world quite as black and white as you do. The fact is that there is an element of "self" that must be maintained. We do not magically transform into "us" when married, or when we have kids. Yes, children are dependent on the parents. But the parent does not cease being an individual. For some, subsuming themselves to the kid and/or marriage "works" but I've seen people who did that and frankly were pretty messed up. Mostly because they had lost themselves. At some point the kids move away and relationships change and all along you are stuck with...yourself.

I think it is a balance between self fulfillment and duty to the family. For some, that duty is better served from a bit of a distance. People have different needs and goals in life. I don't think there is one "right" answer for anyone. I've known people who have lived together and others who have married and others who have divorced. I've seen all of those combinations with and without kids. I've seen happy divorced families and miserable married families. And vice versa. There is no single solution. And I think that the historical pressure that society has brought to bear on certain "wrong" choices is partly to blame for the problems.

I suppose if we kept the women out of the workplace and the man is the king of the household, and maintain that for the kids no matter what, then everything would be just like it was. The problem is that "how it was" perhaps wasn't as good as people remember. Depends on your situation...