Marriage: when is enough enough?

[Vipergrün]

Maybe I'm just having a melancholy day, but my marriage is starting to take a toll on my day to day well-being. The constant arguing, the jabs, lack of intimacy, lack of common interests, poor communication, etc.

We have discussed separation, have tried counseling but probably need more.

The thought of not being in the same house as my kids breaks my heart. Simple things like tucking them in at night, helping with homework, etc. Especially hard during the holidays.

I've been divorced once before, but that was a hail mary from the beginning, with little to no chance of success.

My current wife and I have been together for 16 years. Its gotten to the point where we are both shutting down emotionally and things are becoming toxic.

The time and effort it would take to make things better would be tremendous.

Or do we cut our losses and go our own ways?

Thanks for letting me vent. I've been reading Lubemasters thread, but didnt want to hijack.

[porsche4life]

Never been married here but I did just break up with a girl I had been with for 2yrs... It was kinda the same way... Felt like it had gotten toxic and we were both shutting down... In retrospect I wish I had tried to save it...


Try to save it. You will regret not....

[asphaltgambler]

The real question is do you both want to move forward together as happy couple in a healthy relationship or not. You guys didn't get where you are overight so don't expect to "fix" the relationship overnight.

Sometimes too much water has passed under the bridge where one or both of you have changed so much that you don't have anything in common or remember why it is that you married in the first place.

Only you two know the real answer to that........

[McLovin]

How old are your kids?

Without kids, it's easy, just get out.

Divorce is very destructive to kids, though. And they didn't ask to be put into the situation, that was all your and your wife's doing. They are innocent victims.

So you owe it to them, even at the expense of your happiness, to do everything possible to keep it together and working in a reasonably functional way, for their benefit.

[Dueller]

Many of you folowed and commented on my thread when wife and I were having problems this summer that resulted in a 2 month separation. Thus far the physical separation helped us rekindle our relationship but I think it was more of a decison by both of us to really examine what was important to us individually and as a couple. In our case we had some common goals, desires and attitudes but it took some real candor aND emotional risks to undo some patterns both of us had fallen into.

We have only been married 3 1/2 years but together for 6 1/2. We have no children together,,,3 teenage children, I have no kids. As many are aware the stepkids (particularly the twin 18 y.o. dtrs) were a primary area whgere we got off in the ditch. I had to back off my role as I saw it with the kids and wife had to concede that my efforts at stepparenting were well intentioned if not in line with what she felt my role shuld or should not be. Moot point now as all kids are out of the house and off to college. Having kids tohether makes your situation a bit more complicated than mine.

That being said, its come to jesus time for the two of you. In a non-hostile non-adversarial way the two of you must sit down and discuss where the relationship has gone off in the ditch. Establish expectations, boundaries, roles, goals, desires etc both individually amnd as a couple. Get away from blaming one or the other and be ready to accept personal responsibility for what has gone wrong, Keep in mind at this point its about the failure of the RELATIONSIP not your failures individually or as a spouse. Its about honest communication. If either of you are unwilling or unable to do this, it cannot be salvaged.

Its a tough thing to do. It requires that both of you are honest and vulnerable to opening up as to exactly what's going on in the relationship. Only at that point can you salvage the relationship or make a decision to go your separate ways.

Good luck.

[KevinP73]

Having been married/divorced twice and have had many relationships (some long term, some not) fail. I feel I should have a little something to share on this topic.
Let me share what I know about women and how to make a relationship work.

1. Man hole covers are round so they will install without a specific orientation..
2. Man hole covers are extremely heavy because they have to withstand the weight of traffic.
3. Man hole covers when tipped on edge will not fall into the hole.
4. Man hole covers were first used in New York City.

[M.D. Holloway]

wrong guy to ask...

[flatbutt]

Viper, I've been divorced since 1988. My two children were badly hurt by the process even though we tried very hard to avoid that. Try to save the family and realize it is highly likely that in a divorce the kids will be hurt. Don't be fooled by that " kids are resilient crap". It hurts and it hurts for a long time.

[asphaltgambler]

Man the day-to-day work in a relationship is the hardest...........

[Steve Carlton]

I'm pretty sure I've seen children get damaged by a couple staying together that shouldn't have as well, so I'd say that's a double-edged sword.

I split up with my ex in 2004 and before we did we went through a lot of counseling. Then I reluctantly agreed to do something else, a Marriage Builders seminar. I thought it was 100x better than the slow-boat counseling. It didn't save my marriage, but for a while it sure helped. Worth a look-see. I could see it saving a lot of relationships, and I could see doing it before things get too far down the wrong path. Good luck!

[Vipergrün]

Originally Posted by KevinP73

Having been married/divorced twice and have had many relationships (some long term, some not) fail. I feel I should have a little something to share on this topic.
Let me share what I know about women and how to make a relationship work.

1. Man hole covers are round so they will install without a specific orientation..
2. Man hole covers are extremely heavy because they have to withstand the weight of traffic.
3. Man hole covers when tipped on edge will not fall into the hole.
4. Man hole covers were first used in New York City.

Thanks Kevin, I'm starting to feel like i've lost my manhole cover...but I have been to NY once

I appreciate the various perspectives on the subject.

[charlesbahn]

Try taking a trip, just the two of you, for a week in a car or a boat (a small vehicle). After that time the answer will be obvious. Either you will rekindle the flame, or you will know that you dislike each other so much it won't continue.

[juan ruiz]

Bro you are not alone, MANY of us are in the SAME boat, I have two kids too! I always tell her that I don't have a wife anymore is like having a cousin the way I have figured it out, I own it to my kids to be there for them after 16 years what is another 10 or so. Good luck and if you fix it please let me know how.

[nostatic]

I get along better with my ex now that when we were married. And I see my son all the time. But that took a lot of work and effort as well as sacrifices by both of us. In the end I'm not sure that it wouldn't have been less work to stay together, but the reality is that sometimes there is no perfect solution. Staying together and working it out is likely the easiest. But I don't buy the "staying together for the kids" thing. If it really is toxic the kids will get hurt by that as much or more than by divorce. If both of you can put the kids first, you can likely make either marriage or divorce work.

[Vipergrün]

I think I have realized that over time people, including myself, do change and I believe my wife and i may have inherent compatibility issues and most basic levels. Kinda the round hole, square peg thing. Hmmm, interesting metaphore since labido is an issue

[Rick V]

I am from a broken home, the parents got divorced when I was 5. All I really remember is that the fighting was over. It was a bitter house to live in. My wife is also from a broken home, where it seems that the divorce was handled very well. All parties are civil and get along in social situations to this day.
I have been married for almost 24 years, we dated for 2. I am in the same boat as you. I have changed, she has changed, and we have grown apart. It is to the point where when we care enough to even argue, we don't have the energy to yell, we just disagree.
I love my wife, but I am not in love with her any more. I asked myself a question several times and I always have the same answer. Would I marry the person she is now? I always come up with no.
I left a few years ago, but I came back because I could not stand to be without my kids, looking back, I should have stayed gone. My kids are all grown now, and they are surprised that we are still together. We went to counseling and it did help, just now we know the mistakes we have made and still make.
My ramblings are kind of just my way to say, no one can answer that question for you. You have to answer that for yourself. Just remember, you have to make that face in the mirror happy.
I wish you luck no matter which way you go.

[Z-man]

+1 on what Dueller wrote.

Marriage counseling helps. It did with my relationship - helped me realize that often I had
the wrong (selfish) priorities.

Marriage encounter / enrichment weekends also helped my relationship with my wife - they help you get grounded in why you are married and how to take the marriage to the next level.

I've been married 16 years now, and am still falling in love with Kim, my wonderful wife.

If you love your wife, make it work. There is no easy fix - and tough times may be ahead for you and your wife -- but if you endure through it, coming out on the other side will make the relationship stronger. Don't give up, and hang tough.

As for compatability issues - sometimes you have to agree to disagree. There are plenty of differences between Kim and I - and often it is those differences that make our relationship WORK, not fail, believe it or not.

-Z-man.

[Oh Haha]

Originally Posted by asphaltgambler

Man the day-to-day work in a relationship is the hardest...........

Amen, brother!!!!

I got home from work about 45 minutes ago(drove the 911 so I was ina good mood)and what was the first thing I did?










Complained that my wife had moved the living room furniture around.

I'm an idiot.


Gotta go make things right with Amanda. Be right back.

[legion]

After a bad breakup in college, I learned the lesson that there were some character traits/habits/beliefs that I could tolerate in a woman and some that would be toxic to a long-term relationship. I made a list of them. It really helped me stear clear of relationships with women (no matter how hot) that would eventually end in disaster.

This list is different for everyone, and I was fortunate at the time that I made it that I wasn't in a relationship--so I didn't try to fit it to any person. (Most of the time when people make a list like this, they are either trying to justifying a decision to date or not date a given person.)

What I'm getting at is are there real, underlying things about the other person that make the relationship fundamentally unsustainable, or is it the accumulation of relatively minor stuff that makes things uncomfortable even when nothing is really wrong?

[Zef]

Life is very short...better to live it happy...make a move...I was there before....!