Illuminating, re economics

[DARISC]

Hopefully this post, from Yahoo News, won't end up in PARF as the result any ignoramus swampdwellers from over there politicizing it:

By Margaret Talev, McClatchy Newspapers
Sat Nov 14, 2:32 pm ET

SHANGHAI — When President Barack Obama lands here Sunday night in China's largest city, he'll find many of its 20 million people intrigued by him and welcoming, but hardly deferential, and some openly skeptical of his promises of change.
Obama will find a stunning futuristic skyline of orbs, skyscrapers, flashing neon and curling overpasses. If he gets outside his protective security bubble, he'll see streams of fresh-smelling cars of the newly affluent, grimy noodle shops selling 50-cent soups and chicken feet, fusion bars and multinational corporate headquarters. He'll also be watched by educated Chinese increasingly confident about their prospects if they stay in China , and less convinced that America's where it's at.
In this, the mainland's most Western-minded and economically dynamic center, where Obama will deliver remarks on Monday before moving on to the capital of Beijing , many Shanghainese see the global balance of power shifting: China is ascending, while America may have peaked.
"The U.S. is a very big and strong country, military-wise, economy-wise. It's still important," said Zhou Jun , 38, who runs a garment business in Shanghai . "But compared to before, China has a lot more influence on the world."
In this nation of 1.3 billion people — a billion more than the U.S. — there's a deep gulf between the haves and have-nots. Hundreds of millions of poor Chinese worry about illness, about how they'll survive the early snow, how they'll make ends meet. For many younger people in Shanghai , however, the standard of living is quickly improving.
Today versus a decade or two ago, Zhou said, "I make more money. My home is a lot bigger. Everybody's homes are getting bigger."
There's populist support for the American and Chinese governments working together to contain North Korea , clean the environment and save the world economy.
There's also mistrust.
On pollution and consumer safety, several Chinese asked: Doesn't American demand for cheap goods drive manufacturing? Don't Americans worry less when it's someone else's dirty air and water? On the economy: Why should Americans criticize the Chinese for how they manage their currency when the U.S. can print more money and expect China and Japan to prop it up?
Many Chinese like seeing Americans doing business here. While Obama talks about supporting free trade, however, they see his tariffs on Chinese tires as evidence that he'll usher in more protectionism if his political base demands it. Never mind the current trade imbalance that tilts a huge surplus China's way.
"He talks really nice, saying stuff about how he's going to change everything . . . but on the other hand bashing Chinese trade," said Wang Guanjun, 50. Wang's an information technology consultant from Sichuan province who was visiting Super Brand Mall in Pudong, Shanghai's modern half on the east side of the Huangpu River .
" China is a partner with the U.S. If we compromise, it's good for both countries. If America still doesn't want to do free trade, China is still going to become stronger," Wang said. "We have 1.3 billion people. We'll win."
Yang Pei Ming , managing director of the Shanghai Propaganda Poster Art Centre , which specializes in Chinese art from the Maoist period of 1949-'79, said that many Chinese are viewing Obama's arrival with a quintessentially Chinese mix of superstition and pragmatism: "They hope he will bring good luck and stocks will go up."
"The Chinese stock market is very strange, it's not really like America," Yang said.
Chinese overwhelmingly say that Tibet should remain under China's control and that the U.S. is misguided in its openness toward the Dalai Lama, Tibet's exiled spiritual leader.
Yang said some Chinese also worry about the U.S. in Afghanistan . "All these tribes: You never know who is the bad guy, who is the good guy." Eyeing his walls of posters depicting Mao, revolution and anti-American campaigns, Yang said, "Personally I don't like war. It destroys the history."
Obama "is a good man, but I don't know if he's wise enough to solve these problems."
Issues that Obama and all U.S. presidents promote — democracy, political freedom and ending censorship — still resonate with young people in the People's Republic. Parts of Obama's inauguration speech were cut from Chinese audiences earlier this year. However, Obama may find passions on these subjects burning with less intensity than in decades past.
Technology is allowing Chinese with Internet and satellite connections to bypass government filters. The global economy makes it easy for city dwellers to connect with people from other places and share information. Capitalism, more than politics, drives the conversation. "Even the leaders talk economics. The whole thing is changing," Yang said.
Zheng Linfeng, 19, a university student in 3-D digital art design, said she doesn't spend much time thinking about censorship or democracy. "I'm used to this," she said of her day-to-day life, which she described as happy.
"I want to say to Mr. Obama I really admire him, I think he's doing a great job," Zheng said.
As for America? Zheng would be interested in visiting to take a class. "But not to stay or live there."
(Special correspondent Kathleen Han contributed to this report.)

[Gogar]

Did you hear about the Bugatti that crashed into the lake in Texas?
Maybe a picture of the Porsche Smart-Car competitor is in your future.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-politics-religion/511025-obama-china.html

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-politics-religion/511005-new-center-gravity.html

[fintstone]

When the Chinese say that an American President is doing a good job...he isn't.

[fintstone]

No wonder they like him in China. Looks like the current administration set yet another record. Pretty illuminating all right!

Federal Deficit Hits October Record of $176 Billion
Government Starts New Fiscal Year Deeply in the Red
By MATTHEW JAFFE
ABC News

The U.S. budget deficit for October surged to $176 billion, a record for the month, the Treasury Department announced today.

During the month, the government racked up $311 billion in outlays compared with $135 billion in receipts.

The October numbers mark the first month for the new fiscal year after the U.S. wrapped up the 2009 fiscal year that ended on September 30 with a record-high $1.4 trillion budget deficit due to increased government spending to stop the recession and the financial crisis. The final deficit for the 2009 fiscal year was equal to 10 percent of the nation's GDP, the highest shortfall relative to GDP since 1945, the final year of World War II...

Federal Deficit Hits October Record of $176 Billion - ABC News

[legion]

And we all know that bondholders sit in front of shareholders when the bankruptcy comes...

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by legion

And we all know that bondholders sit in front of shareholders when the bankruptcy comes...

[fintstone]

The whole world loves him....and the economic implications are staggering. Welcome back Carter!

[jyl]

At this point in the economic cycle, you can have an economy starting to pull out of recession with growing GDP and recovering corporate profits with job losses slowing down OR you can have a balanced budget. You cannot have both. Whine all you want, you still have to choose one or the other.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by jyl

At this point in the economic cycle, you can have an economy starting to pull out of recession with growing GDP and recovering corporate profits with job losses slowing down OR you can have a balanced budget. You cannot have both. Whine all you want, you still have to choose one or the other.

We don't have either. The dollar has lost much of its value. Unemployment is the worst in decades as well as the deficit and national debt...nothing is getting better. Now he is working to raise taxes and take over as much of the economy as possible. That is like throwing paper money at your house after setting it on fire. The only thing that seems successful is making the US into another third world nation. How is that Hope and Change working out for you now?

[fintstone]

U.S. Unemployment Rate Hits 10.2%, Highest in 26 Years
By PETER S. GOODMAN
As the unemployment rate surged to 10.2 percent in October, reaching double digits for the first time in 26 years, it suddenly seemed possible that the nation might yet confront the worst joblessness since the Great Depression.

In the six decades since the government began compiling such data, the highest level of unemployment came at the end of 1982, when it hit 10.8 percent. Despite the widespread assumption that the recession has already ended, and even as the economy has resumed growing, the government’s latest snapshot of the labor market released Friday testified to the uncomfortable truth that expansion had yet to translate into jobs.

“The guy on the street is going to ask, ‘What recovery?’ ” said Stuart Hoffman, chief economist at the PNC Financial Services Group in Pittsburgh. “The job market is still in reverse.”

The sharp rise in unemployment — which climbed from 9.8 percent in September, as the nation lost another 190,000 net jobs — intensified pressure on the Obama administration to show results from the $787 billion package of spending measures unleashed early this year to spur the economy...

[fintstone]

European countries that did not pass gigantic stimulus packages have apparently already emerged from recession...while our crazy policies have mored us even deeper...

Business News


US dollar slumps, euro lifted by data showing end of recession

NEW YORK: The US dollar lost ground against the other main currencies on Friday, as the euro was boosted by news the eurozone had pulled out of recession in the third quarter.

The single European currency traded up at 1.4911 dollars at 2200 GMT against 1.4845 late Thursday in New York.

The dollar dipped to 89.66 yen, from 90.34.

Europe's deepest recession since World War II officially ended when data showed Friday the 16-nation eurozone grew 0.4 percent and the full European Union expanded 0.2 percent in the past quarter.

Growth of 0.7 percent in Germany, Europe's most powerful economy, and 0.3 percent in France, lay behind the improvement across the eurozone.

"The message is that the recovery has begun, but the upswing will be a moderate and gradual affair as domestic demand will remain lacklustre," said Fortis economist Nick Kounis...

[jyl]

Originally Posted by fintstone

We don't have either. The dollar has lost much of its value. Unemployment is the worst in decades as well as the deficit and national debt...nothing is getting better. Now he is working to raise taxes and take over as much of the economy as possible. That is like throwing paper money at your house after setting it on fire. The only thing that seems successful is making the US into another third world nation. How is that Hope and Change working out for you now?

"Nothing is getting better"?

Let's see.

Industrial production bottomed and is rising QOQ. Consumer spending is rising, YOY and QOQ. Disposable income is rising, YOY and QOQ. Home prices are stable and starting to rise, ditto existing home sales. Corporate profits are recovering, pretty smartly in some sectors. Bond yields are way down, credit market indicators are improving, lending to corporate/consumer has stabilized and is possibly starting to improve. Leading economic indicators are rising. Equity prices have partly recovered.

Meanwhile, employment is lagging, with job losses slowing down but not stopped yet. Yes, government budgets are in deficit.

In short, the leading indicators of the economy have turned positive while the lagging indicators are still negative. This is pretty typical for an economy at the inflection point between recession and recovery. And since 3Q was the first quarter of positive GDP, the economy is indeed at an inflection point.

A lot of people view the economy through ideological eyes and don't objectively assess the data. A lot of others forget that, by definition, the economy is at its grimmest when the recovery begins. And many others fail to appreciate that the federal government's "operating margin" aka budget surplus/deficit is extremely cyclical, when the economy is very bad the budget will be in major deficit even with no change of policy.

[jim72911t]

Will a mod PARF this, please...

[Heel n Toe]

Originally Posted by DARISC

Hopefully this post, from Yahoo News, won't end up in PARF as the result any ignoramus swampdwellers from over there politicizing it:

Uh huh.

Hopefully, that lead-in, from your partisan ******* brain, will be seen for what it is... a lame attempt to paint anyone who disagrees with you as somehow in the shadow of your great intellect.

Ugh... make it stop... please.

Gotta love this fun quote from that article:

"Obama is a good man, but I don't know if he's wise enough to solve these problems."

An understatement.

[DARISC]

Originally Posted by Heel n Toe

... a lame attempt to paint anyone who disagrees with you as somehow in the shadow of your great intellect.

I thought it was an interesting article. How you came up with "anyone who disagrees with you as somehow in the shadow of your great intellect" is puzzling to me.

Sorry that you feel put in the shadow of anyone's great intellect. That's sometimes indicative of a low self esteem problem - perhaps you should consider that before accusing others based on your own shortcomings?

[Heel n Toe]

Originally Posted by DARISC

I thought it was an interesting article. How you came up with "anyone who disagrees with you as somehow in the shadow of your great intellect" is puzzling to me.

B.S.

It's not puzzling to you... or anyone else.

When you said you hoped it didn't end up in PARF as the result of any "ignoramus swampdwellers" politicizing it, you plainly showed what you thought of anyone who disagreed with your views of loving the great Obambah.

You love to troll... but apparently don't dig being called on it.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by jyl

"Nothing is getting better"?

Let's see.

Industrial production bottomed and is rising QOQ. Consumer spending is rising, YOY and QOQ. Disposable income is rising, YOY and QOQ. Home prices are stable and starting to rise, ditto existing home sales. Corporate profits are recovering, pretty smartly in some sectors. Bond yields are way down, credit market indicators are improving, lending to corporate/consumer has stabilized and is possibly starting to improve. Leading economic indicators are rising. Equity prices have partly recovered...

The only spending that has increased is due to Govt giveaways...Cash for Clunkers, etc. It is not sustainable. Wait until the insane spending results in runaway inflation and high interest rates...not to mention the planned tax increases to pay for all the spending and taking over of healthcare and other industries. How many homes will sell then?

[fintstone]

The article really points out an interesting change. It seems the communists are more capitalist...and our leaders are more socialist. After all these years, the commies have learned that communism just does not work...and our leaders are trying to nationalize major industries in the US.

[DARISC]

Originally Posted by Heel n Toe

...When you said you hoped it didn't end up in PARF as the result of any "ignoramus swampdwellers" politicizing it...

So, you choose (along with a few others here) to politicize the article and confirm yourself as one of those "ignoramus swampdwellers"?

[Gogar]

Come on, man! You frickin INVENTED the swamp! You and flnt should just own it and get married.