Why change your oil?

[Schumi]

Wait I just read the first page of that thread....

all the guy did was scoop out the sludge from the valve cover portion, change the oil, put some additive in it or something, and drove it home....


W T F

If I opened up a valve over on a car like that, I'd be pulling the pan and checking bearings, sump screen, all sorts of stuff....

These guys are idiots.

[aigel]

Originally Posted by Schumi

These guys are idiots.

No sheet! Full tear down to the short block is on order IMHO. But who cares, the guy probably sells the car next year ....

George

[red-beard]

On the Honda intervals, In my 1993 Accord, the change interval was...7500 miles. 3000 IF the car was in severe service. They had a list of severe service. I was driving 110 highway miles per weekday, and about 45,000 per year total. 7500 was fine. And I ran synthetic. Everytime I set the valve clearences, all the way to 230,000 miles, the engine was CLEAN.

These days, we hardly drive. So 3000K is the interval. Still run synthetic.

[Tim Walsh]

Originally Posted by Schumi

Wait I just read the first page of that thread....

all the guy did was scoop out the sludge from the valve cover portion, change the oil, put some additive in it or something, and drove it home....


W T F

If I opened up a valve over on a car like that, I'd be pulling the pan and checking bearings, sump screen, all sorts of stuff....

These guys are idiots.

Close. I skimmed the thread. He changed the oil 3 times in something like 5K.

Can you even pull the pan on that car without pulling the motor out? If not then what's the point of pulling the pan, it would cost as much to pull the motor and clean as it would be to replace the thing. Since it's running "just fine" why not just do a couple super frequent oil changes to clean things up?

[strupgolf]

After reading some posts on bimmerformums, I'm not at all surprised at this. The gene pool is lacking and so many owners are young hip hop wannabe's who don't have a clue where the dipstick is.

[legion]

All it takes is a pea-sized chunk of that stuff on a pickup line and his engine is toast.

And I'd think his piston rings and bearings are well on their way to failure.

[GH85Carrera]

I put right at 12,000 miles per year on my DD. I run thicker oil in the summer months.

I am one of the crazy folks that have a can cutter. I inspect the oil filter after every change. There is usually some baked on black cooked oil on the inside of the can right next to where the exhaust pipe goes. It is a small amount about the size of a dime. The paper filter is always clean. The filter is about 2 inches from the exhaust pipe. That is how GM designed it. My DD has to have the front end greased and I take that time to inspect all the ball joints and fittings. I also grease the universal joints. What a pain that is. I recently found one universal joint that was going bad. The visual inspection is important on a 23 year old daily driver with over 278,000 miles. My 911 gets an oil change one a year on average after about 5 to 6 thousand miles.

[Tishabet]

My wife's car (08 mini cooper S) was bought new from the dealer, and included maintenance for the first 30k miles. When we were taking delivery I asked if we could schedule the first oil change... I figured it was a new car and it would be no time before it was due for the first change.

Turns out the factory recommends the first change at 15k. I was pretty surprised to say the least!

[Superman]

A mechanic friend had an old '50's Buick that he wanted to kill. They drained the oil and started the engine, let it run. After a while, they played with the throttle. Nothing. So.....they went for a spirited drive on a country road, including steep hills. Nothing. Drove it back to the shop and layed a brick on the gas pedal. The engine SCREAMED until they didn't want to listen to it any more. They figured heck, if this engine wants to live that bad, they'll stop trying to kill it. They lifted the brick off the gas pedal and POW! Rod out the side of the block.

[M.D. Holloway]

If the engine can remain cool, and there is no way for stuff to get into the oil, and the oil is designed with a good additive pack, and the fuel is good, and the engine is properly tuned and spec'd then the opportunity for the oil to go tramp decreases exponentially. The problem is that those variables are not in any control for many engines.

Reduce the opportunity for failure and you will reduce failure - plain and simple.

[Dueller]

Lubey...or any others that wish to comment: Is there any recommended (or not) engine treatment to remove possible buildup? Such as in a situation where you buy an older car that appears to be fine but any thing helpful for an engine with no known problems?

Just curious.

[M.D. Holloway]

Conventional Flushing Compounds contain acids, caustics, solvents or kerosene which can damage seals, shorten oil life and require disposal as hazardous waste. Pressure Flushing/Filtration is expensive, may damage critical components. With that in mind, I helped design a fluid that safely dissolves deposits, neutralizes acids and cleans metal surfaces to reduce operating temperatures and system wear with out using those harsh chemicals.

You add it 1 part to 10 parts of the oil that is in your crankcase - for our cars that would be 3 qts. Run it for a few days. I actually put it in the Targas engine and left it in for 3 months. When I drain it the oil was pitch black. I charged the engine with a home brew I built and notice that the op temp doesn't get above 100C (prior it would hit 100C in 5 minutes of driving).

I have hundreds of pages of data to support the claims. It does a great job at removing the crap in systems such as engine, hydraulics and gearboxes. I don't recommend it on automatic transmissions though - you can get some clutch slippage.

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by Superman

A mechanic friend had an old '50's Buick that he wanted to kill. They drained the oil and started the engine, let it run. After a while, they played with the throttle. Nothing. So.....they went for a spirited drive on a country road, including steep hills. Nothing. Drove it back to the shop and layed a brick on the gas pedal. The engine SCREAMED until they didn't want to listen to it any more. They figured heck, if this engine wants to live that bad, they'll stop trying to kill it. They lifted the brick off the gas pedal and POW! Rod out the side of the block.

WW2 pilots found this out very quickly. If their engine was shot up and ran out of oil or cooling fluids they found out very fast to not touch the throttle. The second they reduced power the engine siezed and they were either gliding or using the chute to get out.

Funny thing is that on many old radial engined airplanes they could even have an entire jug (cylinder and head assy) shot off of of the engine and it kept going.... as long as you did not reduce power.

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by LubeMaster77

I helped design a fluid that safely dissolves deposits, neutralizes acids and cleans metal surfaces to reduce operating temperatures and system wear with out using those harsh chemicals.

And where does one get this magic elixir?

[aigel]

Originally Posted by legion

All it takes is a pea-sized chunk of that stuff on a pickup line and his engine is toast.

And I'd think his piston rings and bearings are well on their way to failure.

+1. I bought a project car with similar oil change neglect and the rings were shot. There is no oil getting to the rings because the piston skirt and oil ring as well as all the ring lands will be full of sludge too.

George

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by widebody911

And where does one get this magic elixir?

There is this small "Skunk works" in the Dallas area that I hear produces the stuff.

[M.D. Holloway]

Originally Posted by widebody911

And where does one get this magic elixir?

Send me you shipping address and a company name and I will send you some - You have a 911 drinking 3gl of earl right? You will need 3 qts, some duct tape and some 20wt ball bearings...

[serge944]

A replacement engine is cheap for that car - less costly than a rebuild. Pretty sure the guy isn't capable of doing any kind of repair himself...

I think they took the right course of action. If future problems develop, then replace the engine.

[cashflyer]

Originally Posted by Tim Walsh

Since it's running "just fine" why not just do a couple super frequent oil changes to clean things up?

Sludge collects in the oil gallery passageways, including the passages that let oil go to your bearings. Starve a bearing, and you will lose the engine.

Another collection point for sludge that is often overlooked is the crankshaft. Many people re-use a crankshaft when doing a rebuild. This is fine, but you need to pop the plugs and clean it out - which most people don't think to do.

In the old Triumph motorcycles, there is a tube in the crank that is actually called a "sludge trap". You may be surprised how much crud can accumulate in there.

[Tim Walsh]

Originally Posted by cashflyer

Sludge collects in the oil gallery passageways, including the passages that let oil go to your bearings. Starve a bearing, and you will lose the engine.

Another collection point for sludge that is often overlooked is the crankshaft. Many people re-use a crankshaft when doing a rebuild. This is fine, but you need to pop the plugs and clean it out - which most people don't think to do.

In the old Triumph motorcycles, there is a tube in the crank that is actually called a "sludge trap". You may be surprised how much crud can accumulate in there.

true true, but what I was getting at is the effort vs. reward on doing a teardown and clean just isn't worth it. If you have to pay to pull the motor(and it didn't look like he had those facilities), then 80% of the way towards a full engine replacement since those motors are cheap. In this situation you've got 2 choices really. 1. $2000 to Remove, clean and replace the engine. 2. Pay $150 in oil/filters and it might be ok. BUT if it does blow up you're out what, $2500 to replace the engine? To me it seems the better proposition is to clean the top end, change the oil frequently and cross your fingers.