Tag Carrera vs Omega Seamaster Aqua Terra, please help!

[BRPORSCHE]

Originally Posted by Damian in NJ

Not true, and a Waltham wrist chronograph also moon walked.

Honestly? Hmm had no idea. Have a link?

[Damian in NJ]

Originally Posted by BRPORSCHE

Honestly? Hmm had no idea. Have a link?

What watches were worn on or near the moon?

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by petrolhead611

Actually it was not I that was wrong, but you,Stuiartj. It is a Chronometer that is tested and certified by the relevant Swiss authority, not a chronograph. A Chronograph is a watch with at minimum an interval timing function with no guarantee whatsover of accuracy. As it is, a Chronometer can lose its accuracy over time, and will then need servicing. Anyway, if you want real accuracy buy a $25 quartz watch, but before doping so ask yourself why you need to run your life to an accuracy of 1-2 seconds a day!
You will be wearing the watch, so be please with its appearance otherwise you won't enjoy it.
Theree are lots of watches on the market,about 150 Swiss brands alone I believe( some initiated by Americans actually, such as IWC) so maybe some more research is needed before splashing the cash.

LOL- youre right petrolhead...writing late at night, my first sentence should ofcourse have read:-

"That is not correct. A chronograph is a watch that can measure intervals- it has stopwatch function, or "complication". A chronometer is a watch whose movement is certified to a Swiss standard to run, IIRC -4/+6 seconds per day in certain positions."

Thanks for pulling me up.

But- a chronograph may also be certifed as a chronometer. This modern Omega below for example.

Many fine watch mfrs do not bother with the Swiss COSC (-4/+6) standard as their watches and movements run well inside these tolerances- it is more marketing than anything else, and the movements are tested before final assembly into a watchcase. I have a 1952 IWC that staggeringly, runs +2 secs per day. Better than my modern IWC.

[RPKESQ]

Originally Posted by Damian in NJ

1) Every watch labeled Swiss Made must be assembled in Switzerland.

Assembled in is not manufactured in. There is a huge difference.

Originally Posted by Damian in NJ

1)
2) Rolex offers incredible advances in materials technology. The watches are tractors, but the materials they create add to durability. Check out their video on their proprietary Everose alloy, which uses a small percentage of platinum to prevent the color from fading over time. Their hairspring alloy is incredibly temperature and anti-magnetic. It's not silicon or diamond as far as cutting edge, but you'll be able to work on it.

And Omega is close to Rolex for celebrity endorsements. How much did it cost to hire Schumacher, Clooney, Brosnan, and Cindy Crawford?

Rolex, as any search of their patents will show, spends more on finishing and has more patents on finishing (by machine, not by hand) than any other watch company. Rolex made a good watch, but for inovation, complications and pushing the limits of watch design, they are decidedly second string.

The point I was trying to make is Rolex was the first Swiss watch maker to really concentrate on marketing instead of technical excellence to sell their product. Everyone else has learned from Rolex. Read the histories and you will see the timeline.

Originally Posted by Damian in NJ

1)
3) Classic Omega watches have residual value, but modern day Omega is just one of the twenty or so brands owned by the Swatch Group, and below four other brands in the company rank of prestige. (Breguet, Blancpain, Glashutte, and Jaquet Droz).

Not sure what your point here is? That Omega is not at the top as far as watch brands go? Back to price-point.

Originally Posted by Damian in NJ

1)
4) George Daniels invented the co-ax escapement and sold/licensced the design to Omega. Early versions, well, didn't run so well. There have been several redesigns. And while a value in a pocketwatch worn vertically a tourbillion serves no purpose on a wristwatch.

So buy what you like. From my experience a modern day Omega is better put together using better materials than a TAG.

I have met George Daniels several times at the Basel show. He will readily tell everyone how he approached several famous watch manufactures, but all declined citing cost and difficulties, except Omega (they originally declined and then rethought the idea). I agree a tourbillion is wasted on a wristwatch, but the same cutting edge design solution that Breguet did for the pocketwatch, the CoAxial movement does for the wristwatch. Yes it did have manufacturing difficulties and redesigns were required. What cutting edge improvement of this type did not?

[911Rob]

I vote "no watch", but it wasn't available.

I have thousands of dollars in watches on my shelves, back from the suit and tie days, ha, ha.

Now I dont wear a watch at all.
Also dont have an alarm clock, ever.

Now if they made a watch that said..... "Sat, Sun, Mon, Tues, Wed....." so I'd know what day it was I might be interested in buying that. One of my good buddies would like a watch that told him what month it was, ha, ha.

Good luck with your TAG!

[porsche4life]

Rob, My $100 Invicta tells me what day of the week it is... As well as date and a whole host of other things....

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by benp911

Funny you post this as either a tag carrera or a blue seamaster (bond style)will be my next watch.

I wear the Seamaster, have for six years...I have been very hard on it and it still looks and runs great.

Not to hijack, but is it time for me to send it in for a cleaning?

[911Rob]

Originally Posted by porsche4life

Rob, My $100 Invicta tells me what day of the week it is... As well as date and a whole host of other things....

No Sidney, I want a watch and a clock that says ONLY the day of the week, nothing else.

So when I wake up or glance over I can say.... "oh, it's Wednesday today"; also makes a great conversation piece.

When I lived in Calgary and ran 7 different businesses running from meeting to meeting day and night I always dreamed of getting rid of being controlled by time..... it was a major goal of mine! Achieved.

Now I'm focused on being in control of money and not the other way around if you know what I mean.

[RPKESQ]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

I wear the Seamaster, have for six years...I have been very hard on it and it still looks and runs great.

Not to hijack, but is it time for me to send it in for a cleaning?

Every 5 years is an average TBO. But of course, how hard is the real question.

I do every 5 for my Seamaster, but on my dress watches I can do every 10. Of course I keep them wound and working and do not subject them to water, shocks, high heat (90+) or low temperatures (less than 40).

[Damian in NJ]

Originally Posted by RPKESQ

Assembled in is not manufactured in. There is a huge difference.



Rolex, as any search of their patents will show, spends more on finishing and has more patents on finishing (by machine, not by hand) than any other watch company. Rolex made a good watch, but for inovation, complications and pushing the limits of watch design, they are decidedly second string.

The point I was trying to make is Rolex was the first Swiss watch maker to really concentrate on marketing instead of technical excellence to sell their product. Everyone else has learned from Rolex. Read the histories and you will see the timeline.



Not sure what your point here is? That Omega is not at the top as far as watch brands go? Back to price-point.



I have met George Daniels several times at the Basel show. He will readily tell everyone how he approached several famous watch manufactures, but all declined citing cost and difficulties, except Omega (they originally declined and then rethought the idea). I agree a tourbillion is wasted on a wristwatch, but the same cutting edge design solution that Breguet did for the pocketwatch, the CoAxial movement does for the wristwatch. Yes it did have manufacturing difficulties and redesigns were required. What cutting edge improvement of this type did not?

Three conditions to be Swiss Made. Movement must be Swiss, with at least 50 percent of the movement components having Swiss origin. The watch must be assembled in Switzerland, and final inspection be conducted there. The big loophole is the case and bracelet.

Prior to Mercedes swimming the channel with her Oyster Rolex had to create a watch with the technical excellence to survive it. Same thing with climbing Mt. Everest and going to the bottom of the ocean. After Rolex achieved these with superb engineering they could bring the message to the people.

They have their niche; trust me, if they wanted to do complications they'd be superb. For me it's always been 'Rolex for sport, Patek for dress, everything else is having fun.' It's by far the most vertically integrated volume watch company with enormous resources (even if allegedly they lost a lot in the Madoff scandal).

My Omega point, and I said at the end it's the better watch, is that Omega isn't Omega anymore. I'd rather have a vintage piece (and I do) than a new one, even with Daniel's escapement.

The big advantage of the coax is the oil question. Advances in materials engineering with silicon for escape wheels take care of the same problem, at lesser cost soon.

One thing I admire about both Rolex and Swatch/Omega is their support of watchmaking schools. I've been an invited speaker at a couple of their graduation events, at Litiz and while the Swatch school was in NJ. If you've never been to the Rolex school it's worth a visit. (Just noted you're overseas, never mind)

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by RPKESQ

Every 5 years is an average TBO. But of course, how hard is the real question.

I do every 5 for my Seamaster, but on my dress watches I can do every 10. Of course I keep them wound and working and do not subject them to water, shocks, high heat (90+) or low temperatures (less than 40).

Off it goes...thanks.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by 911Rob

I vote "no watch", but it wasn't available.

I have thousands of dollars in watches on my shelves, back from the suit and tie days, ha, ha.

Now I dont wear a watch at all.
Also dont have an alarm clock, ever.

Now if they made a watch that said..... "Sat, Sun, Mon, Tues, Wed....." so I'd know what day it was I might be interested in buying that. One of my good buddies would like a watch that told him what month it was, ha, ha.

Good luck with your TAG!

You can ship me your watches (practically garbage for you) it sounds like You can even keep anything that's got any gold on/in it. I'm not in it for the bling.

Yeah, a watch that only has the day, that would be an interesting conversation piece. My watch is a 24 hour watch (not a GMT, a true 24 hour watch). Most folks don't notice, but I like it.

Back to the OP...

I'm not sure why you've posted this poll, but something to consider might be a vintage Omega or Heuer (pre TAG). Just a thought.

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

I wear the Seamaster, have for six years...I have been very hard on it and it still looks and runs great.

Not to hijack, but is it time for me to send it in for a cleaning?

There are two schools of thought on this- Im of the "Wait till it stops" view myself....

[RPKESQ]

Originally Posted by Damian in NJ

Three conditions to be Swiss Made. Movement must be Swiss, with at least 50 percent of the movement components having Swiss origin. The watch must be assembled in Switzerland, and final inspection be conducted there. The big loophole is the case and bracelet.

There are bigger loopholes than that! "Technical" exceptions are easily found. That was just one of the reasons for Patek withdrew from the Geneva Seal.

Originally Posted by Damian in NJ

Prior to Mercedes swimming the channel with her Oyster Rolex had to create a watch with the technical excellence to survive it. Same thing with climbing Mt. Everest and going to the bottom of the ocean. After Rolex achieved these with superb engineering they could bring the message to the people.

They have their niche; trust me, if they wanted to do complications they'd be superb. For me it's always been 'Rolex for sport, Patek for dress, everything else is having fun.' It's by far the most vertically integrated volume watch company with enormous resources (even if allegedly they lost a lot in the Madoff scandal).

But their extreme condition performance accomplishments were in the past, what have they done in the past 35 years? Even then they made those acheivements with someone else's movement for the most part.

I agree they have their niche (all successful makers obviously do), but it is more due to advertizing now than technical brillance. And no high end Swiss Watch company utilizes more machine automation and finishing than Rolex. I enjoy the handwork.

Originally Posted by Damian in NJ

My Omega point, and I said at the end it's the better watch, is that Omega isn't Omega anymore. I'd rather have a vintage piece (and I do) than a new one, even with Daniel's escapement.

The big advantage of the coax is the oil question. Advances in materials engineering with silicon for escape wheels take care of the same problem, at lesser cost soon.

I have vintage peices that I enjoy, but few are as capable as a modern watch. And that was what the OP was inquiring about. And yes silicon holds great promise as soon as the cost is reduced.

Originally Posted by Damian in NJ

One thing I admire about both Rolex and Swatch/Omega is their support of watchmaking schools. I've been an invited speaker at a couple of their graduation events, at Litiz and while the Swatch school was in NJ. If you've never been to the Rolex school it's worth a visit. (Just noted you're overseas, never mind)

I agree that the support for these schools is great and much needed. I have been to several Swiss workshops and enjoy working on Swiss and American watches as a hobby. I don't claim to be an expert, but I can find my way around.

I don't mean to sound anti Rolex or argumentative, but there are as good or better built watches and far more interesting design than on any Rolex in the past 40 years. I freely admit they hold their value better than any mass produced watch, but that value is based mostly on advertizing and brand recognition now.

[RPKESQ]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

Off it goes...thanks.

Nobody will do as fine a job as the factory.

Non factory people can be very good and if price is the most important thing than use a good one.

If you wait until it breaks it almost always costs more. I treat mine like the fine machine they are. You would not wait until your car broke before preforming routine maintenance on it.

[scottmandue]

Psst... HD... I can hook you up... yo!

[Damian in NJ]

Originally Posted by RPKESQ

There are bigger loopholes than that! "Technical" exceptions are easily found. That was just one of the reasons for Patek withdrew from the Geneva Seal.

I was told that Cartier, through acquiring the Dubuis atelier thus gaining eligible Geneva Seal capability, had more to it, along with Patek's arrogance in creating a standard that only they can satisfy.

But their extreme condition performance accomplishments were in the past, what have they done in the past 35 years? Even then they made those acheivements with someone else's movement for the most part.

Making their watches more reliable, robust, and better timekeepers has been their goal.


I agree they have their niche (all successful makers obviously do), but it is more due to advertizing now than technical brillance. And no high end Swiss Watch company utilizes more machine automation and finishing than Rolex. I enjoy the handwork.

There can be something to be said for that; I remember certain AP calibers that you had a choice of three mainsprings to choose from when replacing them . . .


I have vintage peices that I enjoy, but few are as capable as a modern watch. And that was what the OP was inquiring about. And yes silicon holds great promise as soon as the cost is reduced.

I usually don't wear the same watch day to day, so I don't mind a bit of a loss of accuracy with vintage vs new.


I agree that the support for these schools is great and much needed. I have been to several Swiss workshops and enjoy working on Swiss and American watches as a hobby. I don't claim to be an expert, but I can find my way around.

I don't mean to sound anti Rolex or argumentative, but there are as good or better built watches and far more interesting design than on any Rolex in the past 40 years. I freely admit they hold their value better than any mass produced watch, but that value is based mostly on advertizing and brand recognition now.

I don't agree within their market niche, but we can agree to disagree. Sad thing is that Omega was a direct competitor to Rolex in the fifties and early sixties, now they're not on a par.

Just my take.

[alf]

If i had to choose either it would be the Omega. But for $3k there are much better options out there.

[holtjv]

Originally Posted by 911Rob

Now if they made a watch that said..... "Sat, Sun, Mon, Tues, Wed....." so I'd know what day it was I might be interested in buying that. One of my good buddies would like a watch that told him what month it was, ha, ha.

Good luck with your TAG!

here's the closest we'll find to a true gentleman's watch, showing disdain for minute punctuality:

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by Damian in NJ

Just my take.

"Sad thing is that Omega was a direct competitor to Rolex in the fifties and early sixties, now they're not on a par."

Equally sad is that in those days a Rolex was a tough, quality workaday tool watch. Now, it has morphed inot one of the biggest luxury brands in the world.

IMO- the best value tool watch is the classic Seiko mechanical diver. Love these things, inexpensive, tough as nails. "Fitness for purpose" in every way. This is what a Rolex was in the 50's....