Deliver Your Friends From Dull Edges

[jyl]

Okay, this is a very small thing but I'm sort of pleased about it.

Some good friends of ours have a great kitchen, are eager and good cooks, but had the most awful set of knives. Chicago Cutlery that they bought in grad school, blades as thick as clubs, probably hadn't been properly sharpened in decades, you basically had to crush your way through the food.

So I took their chef's knife home, sharpened it, they loved it. Then I turned the husband on to Victorinox Forschner, said he could get his wife a whole set of professional-quality knives for $130, and so she got new knives for Christmas. We gave them a 10" chefs to complement the set's 8" chefs.

Whenever the wife sees my wife, she raves about her knives, how she never knew how easy cutting could be, its made her life so much easier, etc.

Today I was in a junk store, saw a 12" slicer that was as dull as a butter knife but I recognized it to be a decent brand. Bought it for $1.50, spent an hour re-grinding the edge then polishing, now it is sharper than anything in my block. I'll give that to them since they don't have a roast slicer and my block is full.

Rather satisfying, you know?

When I go to people's houses, at least 1/5th of the time their kitchen knives are crap - totally dull and sometimes a mediocre brand too. I think often its because they just don't know any better. They don't know how easy it is to work with sharp knives, and how inexpensive good knives can be, they don't even realize their knives are dull. Just acquainting them with inexpensive sharp knives can turn on the light bulb, so to speak.

So, I know there are some knife-a-holics here. In 2010, make it your goal to bring one other family/person into the light.

[onewhippedpuppy]

The knife fairy, spreading the joy of sharp kitchen utensils across the country!

[jyl]

The only thing is, what to do when sharpening a knife for a friend?

He buys new knives on your recommendation, no problem for you if he slices himself. But suppose you sharpen his knife, and he cuts himself? I'm not talking legal liability, I'm talking karmic balance.

When sharpening knives for others, will you deliberately leave the edge less sharp than you can make it?

[rouxroux]

A very relaxing & satisfying way to spend some time!

My reference for great kitchen knives:
Knife shop, knife set, Japanese traditional knife, sushi knives : watanabeblade.com

[Jandrews]

Just curious...where does Cutco rank in the world of decent knives? We were gifted a set a number of years ago and still love them. Just recently had them resharpened by Cutco for free, and they cut like a dream. I'm sure they are not the best, but are they considered "decent"?

And I agree, a nice set of knives makes the whole kitchen experience that much more enjoyable.

Thanks,

JA

[DARISC]

Ohboyoboy! Another chance to post a pic of my Shuns!

Thanks to the great input from jyl, nostatic, et al, I went overboard and...well, let's just say, considering that I'm a rank beginner cook and a lousy pool shooter, buying these knives made as much sense as buying a thousand dollar pool cue. But...they're works of art and heirlooms that I'll pass on - hopefully to relatives that are better cooks than I am!

Yer a good man jyl - your sharpening thread was most interesting.

[jyl]

There is no inherent advantage to sharpening with a machine (i.e. grinding wheel or belt) or by a commercial service (which will almost certainly use a machine, for economic reasons), versus hand sharpening (using stones). Except that hand sharpening takes time and practice.

Sharpening basically requires the edge to be beveled and then polished smooth. The bevel is typically at an angle between 30 degrees to 15 degrees and two-sided; in some cases a more or less acute angle; in some cases on only one side with the other at 0 degrees; in some cases a double bevel. The polish is usually as fine as your stones or strops go and your patience lasts; in some cases you want to leave more roughness ("tooth").

So, for your standard $60 Henckel knife of relatively soft stainless steel for your typical hard-on-knives housewife , you might do 30 degrees two-sided, and just use your coarse stone, this will be a thick, rough edge that will stand up to some abuse and last as long as possible given that she won't ever bother to maintain the edge. Your sushi chef with the $500 Japanese blades with very hard carbon steel edges might do 15 degrees one-sided with secondary bevel, polished to the equivalent of 8000 grit with a succession of waterstones that might cost as much as his knives, and he will touch up his edges every day.

I do my knives at about 15 degrees, single-bevel, two-sided, and I polish down to an Arkansas stone. That seems to work for the quality of my knives (decent-to-good, but no better) and available stones.

Your run-of-the-mill knife sharpening service won't hold the bevel angle any better than a skilled hand sharpener can, and won't polish the edge near as finely as a hand sharpener with the right stones can. They will probably use the same angle etc for every knife. And if they are too rough with the grinding, they could conceivably damage the metal.

I know this sounds geeky, it isn't - really serious knife sharpening geeks would call me a total slap-dash amateur.

[jyl]

Darisc's Shuns would deserve a better sharpening than I give my knives. Very very pretty.

So how's the cooking going? What are you cooking? Any more GF effects?

[Bill Douglas]

I buy German knifes such as Felix of Solingen. Each time I use one it get a single stroke each side on the sharpening steel. They never need a stone for some reason and I can/could shave the hairs off my arm with them. I only pay about USD$50 to $70 for them. So the little Japons make a better one do they?

[DARISC]

Originally Posted by jyl

So how's the cooking going? What are you cooking? Any more GF effects?

Cooking going very slowly,

Not much.

GF effects...well, she's a handful (not cooking related ), but I'm maintaining my optimal weight,

[red-beard]

I use a mechanical sharpener. The first wheel is there for setting the bevel and should only be used on exceptionally dull knives (like when I show up at all of my in-laws houses!). The third wheel is a polishing wheel and I use for quick touch up, then a quick steel. This is the only one I really use.

I swear, I should buy another one of these sharpeners and keep it in the car when I visit the relatives.

[1990C4S]

Can you post a picture of your sharpener?

What about using a 'steel'?

Knife Steel - Lee Valley Tools

Maybe followed by a ceramic stone?

[cashflyer]

Originally Posted by jyl

I'm not talking legal liability, I'm talking karmic balance.

I don't know about just sharpening them, but...
"Knives, scissors and all other types of utensils that are used for cutting things are not traditionally considered a good gift idea. Basically the idea of cutting or slicing things is does not promote good luck, or good karma. In fact, to the Chinese or in Latin America the gift of a knife as a gift would be interpreted as "cutting off a friendship (or relationship)."

Perhaps ask your neighbors to give you a beer in exchange for the sharpening, so in effect they have "purchased" the service and not received it as a gift.

[DanielDudley]

I think that would be cultural. Sending someone an ear, or part of a finger would be in universal bad taste.

I had a Chicago Cutlery knife many years ago. Not very stylish, but it took a good edge.

[jyl]

Originally Posted by DARISC

Cooking going very slowly,

Not much.

GF effects...well, she's a handful (not cooking related ), but I'm maintaining my optimal weight,

We should give you some easy and GF-pleasing recipes. Do you like fish? Poultry?

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by red-beard

I use a mechanical sharpener. The first wheel is there for setting the bevel and should only be used on exceptionally dull knives (like when I show up at all of my in-laws houses!). The third wheel is a polishing wheel and I use for quick touch up, then a quick steel. This is the only one I really use.

I swear, I should buy another one of these sharpeners and keep it in the car when I visit the relatives.

how do you maintain the angle? is there a jig of some sort?

[red-beard]

Chef's Choice Model 130 Sharpening Station

The first stage is for creating the correct bevel. It is used only on exceptionally dull knives. It is a diamond hone and will remove metal.

Stage 2 is used after stage 1, to create a micro serration.

Stage 3 is a polishing/maintenance. I usually polish the blades I use weekly, or just before using, if my wife has been using the knives.

Stage 3 does not "grind, it is a ceramic polishing stage. It doesn't seem to remove metal, or no more than you would with a steel.

I would love to submit the edges for analysis by Jy,l to see what the results are at a microscopic level.

[Dottore]

Great thread. I cook a lot. (Dinner parties R'Us.)

Good knives are everything.

Here are my Germans (Wuesthof on top/Henckel on bottom):



Here are my Japanese (Shum and Global):



Here's how I keep them all razor sharp (Henckel sharpener and steel.):



Now I love my knives and have had them all for a long time. All of them have their own function, and all see constant use—with the exception of the Shum. I just don't like the way the handle sits in my hand. Can't get used to it. I've tried to get a handle on it (if you'll pardon the pun), but can't.

If I had to make do with just one of these knives it would be the large Wuesthof (top)—which is brilliant IMO for just about everything. My second favorite all around knife would be the Global because of it's incredibly light weight.

The Henckel sharpening combo is also brilliant. The sharpener is rough, but does the job, and all the slight imperfections it leaves are taken care of with the steel. I've tried a stone but don't have the patience for it.

[jyl]

I'd like to try one of those machines. They get good reviews by Cooks Illustrated and the like.

[mjohnson]

We've had the three stage Chef's Choice for 6 or so years. It does a good job, most of the time.

Pros: easy, fast, consistently pretty good edges (especially with the German blades)

Cons: drawing the blades through the guides scratches them, the Japanese blades never come out even (Japanese) factory sharp, you'll hate every forged knife with big fat bolsters from here on

I'm happy with it, but one of these days I'll learn to sharpen on a stone.

We do drag it to friends and family, leaving sharper edges in our wake...