Light bulbs - LED vs. flourescent

[Steve W]

Lumen output per watt is what determines the efficiency. I think last I checked, the lumen output of LED was only about a ~30 or 35% savings over fluorescent, not 800%. AFAIK, Luxeon is the only company that produces the high output LEDs and they are very expensive - used for some high end automotive taillights/running lights and such.

CRI (color rendition index) is also important to light color quality. While incandescent lighting such as halogen is able to evenly produce the full spectrum of color, fluorescent generally can only produce about 70-85%, in other words, some parts of the spectrum is missing or low, while LED is even lower - such as 'white LEDs' which have a bluish tint - a derivative of the recently invented blue LED. LED lighting has a way to go before the CRI will appear acceptable to the masses - unless you like that cold blueish lighting around your home.

Flicker from fluorescent lighting only comes from the outgoing T12 magnetic ballast technology - which is the 60 hz AC flicker from the electrical outlet, same effect as a CRT computer monitor at at 60 hz refresh, giving some people a headache. Current T8 technology which is more efficient uses an electronic ballast which operates at high frequency, so the result is a even glow from the bulb with no flicker, along usually with a better CRI.

I've seen those LED bulbs at Costco, and for now because of the poor lumen output and color quality, they're nothing more than a novelty. Although I'm all for energy savings (my home has a tankless water heater, low-E dual glazed glass, etc) all my indoor lighting is halogen with electronic dimmers with exterior lighting is a soft white fluorescent.

[Heel n Toe]

Originally Posted by RWebb

- do you have an open fireplace?

Originally Posted by WolfeMacleod

Unfortunately yes. And I hate them.

Do you keep the damper closed when you aren't using it?

[aigel]

Wait 2 years and they'll be down to $2. Also look for large panels - i.e. for your kitchen - down the line. This is just a matter of time.

George

[petrolhead611]

Another to remember a about fluorescents- at point just prior to failure they are only producing 22% of the light they made when new.
Government has banned 100W incandescents, most folk bought all they could before they were banned from sale. No fluorescent equivalent, 75w is max .

[Joe Ricard]

Just replace the lights you most commonly use with LED. We use about 5 lights the most each night. all of them are twisty flourecent types.

Electric Heater is on a programmer. 60 during the day (basically off 12 hours) and then gradually warms up right before we get home. New Pella windows did wonders.

[jyl]

Can't you get 23 watt CFL bulbs (that is the 100 watt incandescent equivalent) in the UK? I see them on Amazon.co.uk.

I have them all over my house (in the US), they are widely available here.

Another to remember a about fluorescents- at point just prior to failure they are only producing 22% of the light they made when new.

Government has banned 100W incandescents, most folk bought all they could before they were banned from sale. No fluorescent equivalent, 75w is max .

[jyl]

How do you figure that? (Unless you're joking)

For you to recoup your investment on those LED lights from energy savings you would have to live 400 years.

[red-beard]

I have replaced most of our lights around the house with CFLs. However, some lights are not replaced. The kitchen has 9 overhead reflector type. I replaced 8 with CFLs, but left one standard. CFLs take time to come on. When I flip the switch, I need at least some light.

All of my outdoor lights have been replaced with CFLs. The upstairs bedrooms are still standard, since we're never in those rooms.

[jyl]

I hear this sometimes. For the CFLs I mostly use (nvision from HD), that's not the case - flip the switch and they are lit, I don't know what the delay is but it is not noticeable. For another brand, that a friend gave me, that is absolutely true, they suck and are being replaced.

If lights get left on a lot (Wolfe mentioned that) there are some timer switches that look convenient enough to use in place of regular wall switches.

I have replaced most of our lights around the house with CFLs. However, some lights are not replaced. The kitchen has 9 overhead reflector type. I replaced 8 with CFLs, but left one standard. CFLs take time to come on. When I flip the switch, I need at least some light.



All of my outdoor lights have been replaced with CFLs. The upstairs bedrooms are still standard, since we're never in those rooms.

[Deschodt]

I studied all that carefully when my bills went thru the roof last year... plugged the killAWatt into all appliances, discovered a few things (namely UPS suck mongo power, I had no idea)
But for the bill,
#1 culprit is A/C or Heating

#2 tends to be water heaters, washer drier if electric, Fridge and freezer - new units are way more efficient !!!

Bulbs are not that big a drain overall... I went ape$hit on CFL and I can tell you they are junk. They are supposed to last forever, yet they burn out faster than my regular bulbs, take a long time to deliver full lighting when turned on, and are not all that good to recycle.... LED is a good idea but the light is a little too directional and harsh....

There is more to be gained from good attic insulation, and using more natural gas if possible... Gas dryer and gas tankless rinnai water heaters for instance, but even those make it hard to recoup the investment ! Insulation is really #1 !

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by jyl

I hear this sometimes. For the CFLs I mostly use (nvision from HD), that's not the case - flip the switch and they are lit, I don't know what the delay is but it is not noticeable. For another brand, that a friend gave me, that is absolutely true, they suck and are being replaced.

If lights get left on a lot (Wolfe mentioned that) there are some timer switches that look convenient enough to use in place of regular wall switches.

Well, they light at once, but they are dim, like they take time to warm up. It is even worse for the ones outside.

[jyl]

Buy a couple 23 watt (100 watt equiv) n:Vision CFL bulbs at your local Home Depot and try them out.

I'm not trying to be a commercial for n:Vision or HD. Other brands may be as good or better. I know that when I started going to CFL, I bought various brands including the cheapest no-name Chinese ones I could find on Amazon. Some died all too quickly, some gave crappy light (including the no-name ones). I finally noticed that one brand seemed to work the best for me, and that is what I buy now. If I'd bought all my CFLs from one of the crap brands, I'd have been turned off on CFLs too.

If anyone finds a good dimmable CFL, let me know.

[red-beard]

I'll try them out. I need the "reflector" type for my kitchen.

[tchanson]

Originally Posted by jyl

I hear this sometimes. For the CFLs I mostly use (nvision from HD), that's not the case - flip the switch and they are lit, I don't know what the delay is but it is not noticeable.

The Home Depot nVision bulbs aren't much different than any other current genration CFL's in that regard. I've got more than 40 of them throughout our house, and they require the same 15-20 seconds to reach full brightness as any other CFL.

The advantage that the HD lights do have, however, are being available in separate and distinct color temperatures, Bright, Daylight and Soft White as I recall. For our purposes, the Soft White ones come closest to the color of standard incandescents. With many other CFL's its been a crapshoot for me as to what the color will be, with most far too blue/white for my tastes.





Tim

[RWebb]

bulbs are not that large a drain overall - esp. in Florida! it's near the equator - in the PNW with darkness all winter they are a somewhat larger expense

I agree with Joe R. - do the most commonly used bulbs.

large panels of LEDs can be had now and are being used by 'designers' in high end Manhattie real estate showplaces -- but the costs will come down

[jyl]

Does anyone in PNW use the bulbs that are supposed to give you "light therapy"?

I got talked into a couple of these last winter. Then my doc wrote me a Rx for mega-dose Vitamin D. I can't tell you if there was any effect from either.

[Tobra]

Photo therapy works well for lots of things, pure and simple. Treatment of choice(choich?) for seasonal affective disorder. Has to do with how your brain is wired.

Dimmer and CFL go together like fish and bicycles.

Originally Posted by jyl

How do you figure that? (Unless you're joking)

I kid, seriously though, money would be better spent elsewhere to make reasonable return on investment.

I thought electric was cheap in PNW, that is why Alcoa went there in the first place, all that hydro power.

[RWebb]

yup -it's cheap -- but not super cheap anymore

used to be 2 cents/kW-hr

[rick-l]

LED light bulbs? How do they do that? White LEDs look white if you look at them but the light reflected off of objects look far from natural.

Same with LED headlights but I bet a natural appearance isn't important in that application

I think CFLs switch at about 40 kHz

[tcar]

Originally Posted by WolfeMacleod

I already spend a butt-load of money insulating the shop/garage space. Didn't help much. Did what I could, but coulnd't do the important bits... like the attic space...so heat went right out the top. ...

That's where most all of the heat is lost... through the top.

That should have been the first place you insulated. You should do that as soon as you can.

Also, about 90 percent of the energy to light an incandescent is given off as heat, not light.