AR-15 or Mini 14?

[Jim Bremner]

the "It's got WOOD" makes it look safer to non-gun types. That's the positive for the mini.

Neg for the mini is that they fling brass HARD ! I got my cheek split by one from 10' away.

The AR is modular and you can have MANY guns from one receiver

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by Jim Bremner

The AR is modular and you can have MANY guns from one receiver

Yeah, quite true.

With one lower and specialized uppers you can configure your AR in literally dozens of calibers in mere seconds.

The AR has got to be the most versatile rifle ever devised.

[azasadny]

I bought my Colt Sporter II a couple years ago and it's almost 100% stock. With the 20" 1:7" twist barrel, I can shoot anything out of it and the gun is very accurate without spend a ton of $. .223 is easy to reload, too.

[MotoSook]

This is feeding the ignorance of the general public. It could also be argued in front of an ignorant jury that a C&R rifle is more evil, because it has seen blood on the battlefield. If one is so paranoid they do make wooden furniture for an AR

Really, gun owners shouldn't fear the ignorant public, but rather behave responsibly while educating them. ARs are becoming more mainstream because some haven't coward away from owning one for fear of being tagged a nut or evil doer. Don't feed the media and anti-gun ignorance.

Quote de Soukus

An AR or Ak isn't so rare at the range these days..nor on the hunting land. As a matter of fact, the last time I was at the range, the bolt actions and non- "assault" weapons were the minority.

If you ever had to use the gun in self defense or had an accident with it, you would look a lot better in front of a jury if they are shown a wooden stock that makes it look like gramps deer rifle. No, I am not planning on using my gun for self defense or on having a shooting accident, but just saying ...



George

[techweenie]

When I was in training we fired M1s, and we only got a taste of the M16 -- because they were being shipped to Vietnam as fast as they could be made. Never got over the sense they were toylike, and if you recall, early models were problematic in the field.

If you need your .223 to look mean, just get a plastic folding stock like mine.

[m21sniper]

I personally think that 5.56x45mm is very close to the perfect general issue cartridge, with today's technological and metallurgical limitations factored in. The "stopping power" problems it had can all be traced to the use of M882 AP or M855 semi AP ammunition. M855 often doesn't fragment soon enough, and M882 doesn't fragment at all. M193 and Mk262 both do tremendous damage when they fragment. According to Dr. Fackler the M193 fragments 85% of the time. Based on what i've read Mk262 seems to fragment all the time, even in 10" weapons. Mk262 is what i'll use if the Zombies ever attack.

US SPECOPS are using an even newer 5.56mm round now, though i cannot remember the designation at the moment.

Could the 5.56x45mm cartridge performance be improved on? Sure...a .cartridge with .220 swift type performance (say a 55gr slug at 4000fps) but without the barrel throat eating high pressure (as explained nicely in a previous thread by Jeff Higgins) and semi rimmed design would be absolutely ideal.

To me a larger caliber is simply not needed, and would actually be detrimental to about 90% of the members of the US military.

Of course opinions vary.

[MotoSook]

Case in point, my oldest boy and I just built one in the last hour. I had a bunch of take-off parts laying around, and he got to liking the range so I bought a lower and upper from Spikes ($190+shipping+FFL fee). We now have a fully functional rifle.

Not everyone has parts laying around, but the modular design has benefits.

If I lived in a ban state, I'd own a mini 14. That's about it.



The flexability and Lincoln Logs availability of parts for the AR make it a no-brainer. They're not perfect,, by a longshot. But most of the flaws inherent in the design, except for those related to the cartridge, have been corrected. I can understand some people's negative view of the AR's. Especially, old timers... My dad never liked them either.

[m21sniper]

Wow, that's cheap! I have a whole stack of extra OEM parts from rebuilding/customizing my AR too, but not enough for a whole gun. If anyone needs any OEM AR parts let me know, i'll make ya a good deal on my leftovers.

[MotoSook]

Lots of guys out their selling good parts to upgrade. One can collect enough parts on the cheap and build a good rifle.

[m21sniper]

I'm short a barrel, gas block and bolt. All of the rest of it i have (sans recievers, of course).

[Jim Bremner]

I only have a lower.

I'm waiting a bit, My lovely wife is aware of the Garands and M1A and others.

[m21sniper]

A little AR porn. Here's another pic of my modified Bushmaster carbine.


There is no denying the sheer coolness factor of a nice AR Carbine.

Mini-14's are very nice, very capable, very, very reliable weapons. They used to be a tremendous value for the dollar. At one time it was the best inexpensive bang for the carbine buck you could get (IMO now that mantle is held by the Hi Point 995 carbine, aka "the Cadillac of crap.")


995 9mm Carbine with $60 dollar ATI aftermarket stock. As pictured you can get this for under $400, brand new. It is incomprehensible to me how well these "cheap" little guns work for the price. My nephew's 995 digests everything i can throw at it, no matter how aggressive the hollowpoint design. They're rated for +P+ by Hi Standard, and i have tested that claim with about 60rds(3 boxes) of Cor-bon +P+ 100gr powrball ammo. That stuff hits 1500fps out of my 4.1" barreled HK P7. Probably gets near to 1750 out of a 995.

With today's latest Generation of JHP's and deep penetrating max pressure heavyweight jacketed flat nose ammo (the best of which get's 36" of penetration in ballistics gelatin even from a pistol barrel), a 9mm Carbine has a hell of a lot of versatility and would be a perfectly suitable little weapon for almost anything you can ask of a carbine. If it has a weakness, it's that the biggest mags "only" hold 15rds, and they need to be modified right out of the box to work properly.

If you're broke but need a perfectly functional little black do everything carbine, the 995 is gonna be hard to beat.

[71T Targa]

Thanks all. Another question if I decide to go the AR route.

CMMG has the bargain bin the Leland pointed out. Now they've added an 18 inch Government Profile with 1/7 twist Barrels. What is the difference between that and the 16 inch M4 with 1/9 twist Barrels?

Should I get the TAPCO 30rd AR15 Magazine for 12.95? Or is there a better option?

Thank you.

[m21sniper]

An 18" barrel will gain more velocity (making the round more powerful), and a 1:7 barrel can handle any round made for 5.56mm. 1:9 barrels cannot stabilize most bullets over 75 grains in all weather conditions.

The 1:7 is more versatile. If you wish to take maximum advantage of the Mk262 round you'll want a 1:7. If you don't care about being able to fire heavyweight bullets, the 1:7 is unnecessary.

18" is the SPR length barrel. Full length M-16/AR's have a 20" bbl.

[MotoSook]

I'd go with the 18". 1/7 or 1/9 really won't make much difference for a civilian. The majority of cheaper ammo sold is 55 gr. Good for paper. If you need to stock self defense ammo, 69 gr JHP will be plenty lethal. So the whole 1/7 is better than 1/9 is a non issue IMO.

One other thing, I you plan to install a 22lr coversion kit, the 1/9 will be better.

But in your case, just get the 18". Heck, I might sneak one under the wifey radar.

Go with Magpul magazines. They can be had for the same price as the Tappco shown in the bargain bin. I haven't used Tappco, but the Magpuls have been heavily tested and favored.

[m21sniper]

I prefer Milspec mags (or teflon coated stainless steel 'milspec type' mags), but i won't deny that Magpul mags have a good reputation.

M193 55gr military surplus ammo is very good for self defense too. It's also better than M855 for penetration at close range.

If you want a really serious round for penetrating barriers, the federal LE 69gr bonded core ammo is the best bet. Barnes makes 70gr solid copper JHPs too.

[71T Targa]

OK, the mil-spec mags are less than the Tapco's.

What does 'Government Profile' mean?

[MotoSook]

Don't buy that GI mag on the site. It doesn't have anti-tilt follower. It will eventually cause a miss feed. I have one of them that came from CMMG and it caused a pretty good jam on the last round of my second mag load, ending a range session early. It now just sits in my safe until I put a new follower in it or I use it as a bracket.

Seriously, just buy a couple of Pmags for $25. It will be good for a new AR owner not to have to deal with mag issues. Check AIM surplus or JSE surplus for cheap MAGPUL PMAGS.

The govmt profile is just the shape of the barrel. Don't worry about it.

AR15BARRELS.COM - Barrel Profiles

[MotoSook]

While you are ordering magazines, pick up a rear site (just get a steel YHM for $85 and be done with it). The BB rifles don't come with a rear sight. Or if you want to go cheaper buy a $50 MBUS by Magpul.

Both the above mentioned vendor should have them. Or go surf the AR15.com classifieds. Lots o deals to be had there.

ETA: MAGPUL PMAG - IN STOCK - AR15.COM

and budget sights ads.

Optics & Sight Equipment - Budget - AR15.COM

more sights:

JSE Surplus - Sights

$14 Pmags 30 rd

30Rd PMag

$14.20 Pmags from AIM with free shipping

Our Catalog

[m21sniper]

You can get Bushmaster factory AR mags for under $20 bucks too. They are 100% reliable in my experience.

Most of my mags are CP teflon coated stainless units. I also have Parsons and Bushmaster mags too, and a single Eagle polymer mag (which also works, though i think the company is defunct now).

I agree with Soukus' link that a perfectly functional for civilian use red dot can be had for under $100.