When is Mens' Figure Skating all about Gender Identity?

[jluetjen]

When it's discussed on NPR!

Did anyone catch "Talk of the Nation" yesterday. Here's an excerpt...

CONAN: And, of course, there is plenty more to come. There is the men's figure skating tonight, the long program, and Americans seem pretty well-positioned there too.

GOLDMAN: One of them, at least. It is going to be fabulous. I mean, all of the experts who know about this a lot better than I do say this is the deepest field ever. You've got Plushenko - Evgeni Plushenko, the defending Olympic champion - who looks on form even though he retired and was out of competition for a good over three years. Lysacek, Evan Lysacek from the U.S. is in second place by just fractions of a point. He's the reigning world champion.

Then you've got Daisuke Takahashi who many people was the best - believe was the best skater in the short program. It's just a dynamic program. He's a silver medalist to the former world championship and could become the first Japanese male to win an Olympic medal in men's figure skating. Japan, I should note, did really well. They've currently got skaters in third, fourth and eighth positions. So they've really kind of exploded on the scene here.

And then you've got a couple former world champion - Brian Joubert who didn't do well. He's really not in the race. Stephane Lambiel, from Switzerland. He's a former world champion, the Olympic silver medalist in 2006. He is an absolutely gorgeous, artistic skater. His final spin, the other night, in the short program - I thought he was going to bore a hole in the ice. It was just intense and it brought the crowd to its feet. And then, of course, you got Johnny Weir who's sitting in sixth place and who knows what costume he'll be wearing tonight. And then the hometown favorite - the home country favorite -Patrick Chan of Canada didn't do very well in the short program. Not a serious contender at this point, but there'll be lots of cheering for him. So, incredibly deep field.

CONAN: Well, more about those costumes a bit later in the program.

...

Joining us now is Hank Stuever, style reporter for the Washington Post, with us at the studio at the newspaper. Hank, always nice to have you on TALK OF THE NATION.

Mr. HANK STUEVER (Style Reporter, Washington Post): Hi. Thanks for having me.

CONAN: And the costumes? Well, they seem to be wilder every year. And this year's no exception.

Mr. STUEVER: Yeah. Tuesday night, in the short program, there was that wonderful Norwegian skater who had this - was wearing a skeleton. He was in black with white bones. They're more inventive. They're more flashy. Johnny Weir came out with his cute little pillow. You know, it's funny. They seem to me bating us, you know, to - there was a guy in overalls. He looked like a farmer of, you know - they're trying different things, obviously.

You know, and it's so fraught. You know, being a male figure skater, being -you know, this - every four years, we have this discussion. It makes our culture, especially American culture, it makes us very uncomfortable around the ideas of masculinity, gender, athleticism. And, you know, our typical immature response is that's so gay.

CONAN: Yes, indeed. And as you look at these - you know, in theory, they can all be wearing identical outfits, and the judging should be no different. That is not the way it works out, is it?

Mr. STUEVER: No. And I think that there are a lot of people in who watch figure skating probably only once every four years and think: Why not just have them in black silhouette, you know, black onesies? That way, they can focus on their skating. You know, but the history of figure skating is a big bundle of neuroses about the masculinity of the male figure skater. And so, you know, the solution seems to have been to embrace the showmanship, to bring out the glitter.

But, you know, it is evolving. I mean, they all used to look like they were about to perform a cabaret on a cruise ship. And, you know, now they've evolved. I mean, you see trousers and belts and shirts. And, you know, it would be nice someday to see one just skate out in a very nice suit, you know, and do "Mad Men" on ice, you know?

(Soundbite of laughter)

CONAN: Some of these outfits are so elaborate, you wonder if they get in the way.

Mr. STUEVER: Well, technically, they don't, because they've certainly tried and rehearsed in them to make sure that there won't be technical issues. They do get in the way of trying to get an every-four-year audience to accept figure skating as a sport, certainly. I mean, the theatrics and the drama of figure skating are the very things that repel some potential fans on that.

CONAN: Well, on the other hand, a lot of these figure skaters competing in the Olympic Games are also extremely well-paid tour - in terms of their touring. And they go even more extreme in those events.

Mr. STUEVER: Right. I mean, to them, you know, the Olympics turns out to be this solemn, anti-fashion, anti-creativity event - or world competitions, all a preamble to Campbell's Stars on Ice, you know, so where they can really cut loose and be themselves. Although, you know, none of them are actually really being themselves. You know, my amateur hack psychologist theory is, you know, you're trying something very, very difficult while standing on blades on a very slippery surface, it's just one big metaphor for all of our issues around gender and masculinity, and of course you're going to slip and fall. You're ridiculous.

CONAN: Talking with Tom Goldman of NPR News and Hank Stuever of the Washington Post. You're listening to TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News.

And Tom, I heard you try to break in there.

GOLDMAN: Yeah, yeah. Of course, the costumes that we're paying close attention to from kind of a news angle other than Johnny Weir's - because he always surprises us with neat costumes - is the ice - the Russian ice dancers, Domnina and Shabalin, who created this firestorm of protest, when they did what they call an aboriginal dance in their original program and offended a lot of people, particularly in Australia.

And their costumes - I mean, Hank can, you know, kind of confirm or deny this, but their costumes basically make them look like cavemen. And I think there is some talk that maybe they're going to have to tone it down. They can't their program at this point and they'll still skate, you know, the same moves and the same music. But I think there's talk that they're going to change their costumes.

Mr. STUEVER: They can be adequately punished by having to wear the black onesie.

(Soundbite of laughter)

CONAN: Let's get a caller in on the conversation. Mark's calling from New Britain in Connecticut.

MARK (Caller): Yeah, hi. Thanks for taking my call.

CONAN: Sure.

MARK: I just wanted to contribute that I think we - that the straight guys who are sort of squirming in their seats looking at the male figure skating costumes kind of have something to learn because all of my female friends watching this are saying, oh, my God, that's so hot.

CONAN: Really?

MARK: Yeah. Yeah. All of my female friends think these - that these costumes are incredibly, incredibly sexy, and just - I hate to use the word, but fabulous-looking.

CONAN: It's very interesting. Then I expect we're going to see the hockey players carrying pillows out to the game tomorrow.

(Soundbite of laughter)

Geez! And I thought that it was about the footwork, athleticism and artestry! Silly me!

[URY914]

I'm gay for reading it....

[widgeon13]

Just f------- fabulous!

[aways]

Those costumes, mmmmsmmsm, they're just ab-so-lutely to dieee for....

[Scuba Steve]

What would Brian Boitano do?

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Scuba Steve

What would Brian Boitano do?

I bet he'd kick an ass or two.

[dd74]

Conan? O'Brien or "The Barbarian."

[widgeon13]

Didn't you mean lick, not kick!

Quote de Scuba Steve

What would Brian Boitano do?

I bet he'd kick an ass or two.

[krystar]

well they can't beat the dynamic pair Chazz Michael Michaels and Jimmy MacElroy. who else can say they've done the Iron Lotus?

[afterburn 549]

Where is Kurt Browning when we need him ?

[onewhippedpuppy]

[sammyg2]

The other night I was watching and waiting for something good to be shown (I eventually gave up) and they were talking about some of the male skaters and mentioned that he was competing against his girlfriend.
I thought to myself, guess there's at least one that hasn't come out yet.

Even if they aren't gay, their fans probably are.

[jluetjen]

Sometimes it would be nice if a cigar were just -- well a cigar! Without our society layering so much sociological and psychological baggage on it that the original enjoyment is crushed under the weight of it all.

(Metaphorically speaking since personally I can't stand cigars.)

I guess we can thank Freud for all of this -- both the cigar analogy and the psychological baggage.

Ugh!