What about the Bloom Box?

[ckissick]

If it really works, could be a boon for Bloom.

Bloom Energy unveils its 'Bloom Box' fuel cell - San Jose Mercury News

[creaturecat]

Vancouver Bloombox:

[BeyGon]

Here is another article, it seems pretty good, will have to wait and see.

FOXNews.com - Can This Object Save the World?

[legion]

EBay started using five Bloom Energy Servers in July. They produce electricity to power space for 2,000 to 3,000 employees and shaved $100,000 off eBay's power bill, says Amy Skoczlas Cole, director of eBay's Green Team. EBay uses natural gas in the boxes but will switch to methane gas from an Oklahoma landfill this spring.

But they're not cheap: The commercial-scale boxes, which look like a big refrigerator, cost $700,000 to $800,000.

eBay spent $4 million in 5 Bloom Boxes. They are saving $100,000 a month in electricity.

So with no maintenance, that would be a 40-month payback.

Then there is the complicating factors:

How long do they last? Can they be refilled? Can their energy production be scaled up/down to meet demand?

[juanbenae]

there was a thing on 60 Minutes about them last week. I watched it DVR'd last evening and was skeptical

[BeyGon]

If Ebay and Coke are using them there is a good indication they might work. Nothing is cheap at start up, in a few years this might work. Computers 15 years ago?

[legion]

eBay and Coke may just be interested in the "green" PR, regardless of success.

[BeyGon]

True, it may be a tax write off and Pr thing but better them testing it than me. Anyway that's what I tell my wife about a Prius.

[RWebb]

current box has a 10 yr guarantee

multi-fuel capability

claimed home mini-fridge sized "home" box in 10 years

they have tons of VC $$; single biggest VC is Kleiner-Perkins

principal was a NASA scientist, attempting to make a power source for a future Mars colony

they spray or deposit xx on a Ti-oxide plate, apparently they use ink-jet technology for this but unclear
- you stack up about a few score plates to make a pac that can sit on your open palm; connect these together to make a power unit - that with associated support modules is smaller than a VW bus - Google up some pics - with a few of these eBay is expecting to make 15% of their energy needs at ~30% LESS than the Calif. grid charges, however each unit is 3/4 Million$ right now so it's unclear how that is amortized

3-5 yr payback in most areas of Calif. is claimed by users

some key features are the network "server" approach & the ability to flow elec. back thru the device to generate H - that means you can couple it with a PV array and have power 24/7

bottom line - this appears to be a significant improvement in fuel cell engineering & economics; worst case appears to be that you get a nice fuel cell for your $$

[ckissick]

BTW, this device was first developed at NASA for missions to Mars. Now there's an example of good coming out of a "worthless" enterprise.

[MotoSook]

The box is IMO a good stepping stone towards technology that can be independent of traditional natural resources. I saw part of that 60 Minute program, and it left me with hope.

The thing that stood out was the box's ability to use natural gas or landfill gas in the fuel cell. Conversion to electricity without the combustion. Land fill gas is increasingly being used and there is an abundance of clean natural gas (let's not discuss the fact that more than 50% of or electricity is produced by burning dirty coal).

The users reported a good savings and IIRC at times they put power back into the grid.

There is fuel cost, buy let's compare this box to fuel burning generators. Which would you rather have? Folks expect a magic box, but we are not there yet. Those same folks will dismiss this device ignorant that we have to start somewhere. As more and more folks buy into this, the greater the development.

One of the so call experts on 60 Minutes dismissed the device, but then admitted that if it takes off we'd probably see General Electric leading the market. This device a is threat to a company like GE who is heavy into the electrical generation business. If it threatens GE they will do why they can to kill it or they will do eveything they can to own it. Owning it and marketing it will mean a decline in their combustion turbine business. The bottom line will determine if GE or some other major player will run with this. If the $ is in their favor, we'll see fast development otherwise this thing may die off despite being so promising.

[URY914]

I gotta bunch of tools. I'm going to build one. I'll start a new thread and keep it updated. Stay tuned.

[red-beard]

The present system is 100 kilo-Watts, enough for 30 to 100 houses, depending on the area. They claim better than 50% thermal efficiency with LHV, which is good, since most scams start by using HHV (LHV is lower heating value, HHV is higher heating value, HHV includes energy assuming you can condense water out of the exhaust gas as part of the cycle).

I would need to look a bit closer at this. GE was trying to do this and hit the wall with the reformer. They claimed they would have a 5 kW unit by 2004. It still hasn't happened.

The reformer takes steam, heats it, mixes it with fuel and produces Carbon Monoxide and Hydrogen. You separate the hydrogen which goes into the fuel cell and you burn the CO to heat more steam.

This is not really new technology. "City gas", as opposed to "natural gas" was produced the same way. "City Gas" is CO and hydrogen. This is where the suicide by sticking your head in the oven comes from. This has not been the case for a long long time.