My father has killed many men...

[Dueller]

It is really strange to look at my aging father and realize he has taken the lives of many men in his lifetime. Although he has never talked about it, he was a distinguished and highly decorated career soldier...Korean Conflict (1 tour), Bay of Pigs "advisor" and Viet Nam vet (2 tours)...3 purple hearts, DSC, bronze stars, silver star, oak leaf clusters, yadadadada. Only gleaned this when looking at some DD214's a while back. Ranger. Airborne. Sniper. 1st Cav. Infantry. And I suspect some involvement with the CIA along the way.

And judging by his various training and assignments, he obviously was up close and personal with our various enemies over the years. Perhaps it explains some of the rage I witnessed over the years.

Just truly weird looking at this now gentle elderly kind man and wonder who he really is.

[Rikao4]

Backwards...
I saved folks who triedto kill your dad or someone like him
D,
it's what we do/did

rims

[onewhippedpuppy]

The fact that he has never talked about it says it all, doesn't it? My father was Airborne in Vietnam, he very rarely says anything about his experience in combat. Several of those interviewed on the "World War II in HD" documentary stated that they have forgotten many things over the years, but the memories of war stand out like they were yesterday. Some things are too horrible to forget.

[gtilove]

Read the book "On Killing " by Dave Grossman. You may be very surprised by what it says.

[nostatic]

My dad was a corpsman in the Navy in WW2 pacific theater. He never talks about the war. Having watched episode 8 of WW2 in HD last night that focused on Iwo Jima, I can only imagine what he saw. Well, I can do more than imagine as that show has a ton of authentic footage and they pull no punches showing dead and dismembered bodies.

The most poignant moment was a soldier recounting being lost in German territory in '44. He was an intel officer and not a shooter. The piece had an actor doing voice over as they showed shots from the region. He talked about being lost and alone, until a single German soldier came towards his hiding place. Knowing he couldn't go back and if he tried to run he'd risk being seen, he snuck up behind the German. The voiceover switched to the actual man, now in his 80's. It showed him sitting in a chair recounting the event. He couldn't look up, his voice wavering. He said he picked up a piece of debris and hit the German soldier over the head, then took his knife and slit his throat. He then went over into a ditch and threw up, forcing his mouth onto the dirt so he couldn't be heard and discovered by other Germans.

Horrific stuff.

[Dueller]

Originally Posted by Rikao4

Backwards...
I saved folks who triedto kill your dad or someone like him
D,
it's what we do/did

rims

Oh, don't get me wrong. I know he did it honorably and in the service of his country and his fellow soldiers. And his own survival. When he came home on a stretcher after his last tour in 'nam, I know he spoke of it on a limited basis to my mother as she shared with me his somber mood was likely as a partial result of a young NCO that he had taken under his wing, barely older than me, dieing in the firefight he was wounded in.

I was too young to serve in 'nam and too old during the Gulf war...so men of my generation never witnessed the horror of war first hand.

[KevinP73]

Spectator (Army Brat)
Dad was 1st Cav. Korea (he was one of the few survivers of the "Double Nickle Campaign") and Viet Nam. Was a developer of the Nike Hercules Program and then went on to the Hawk missle. His DD214 has names and places that I've never heard of. He very seldom spoke to his family about his experiences in combat. He was a proud man till the day he died.

[Dueller]

Kevin...sounds like we have a similar background/life experiences as Army brats. As such "The Great Santini" affected us differenlyt from "civilians" that saw it.

[pwd72s]

I'm sure for many of the combat vets among us...war killing must be segemented into thinking of it as "doing my job". I know Don Malarkey tries to segment it that way.

My B-17 pilot Uncle never talked about it...but he had to know of the mass killing he performed. No pinpoint bombings then.

Those in battle are only the point of the spear...supply clerks to the commander in chief share in the burden.

An old phrase, but a true one... War is Hell.

[KevinP73]

Originally Posted by Dueller

Kevin...sounds like we have a similar background/life experiences as Army brats. As such "The Great Santini" affected us differenlyt from "civilians" that saw it.

Just the mention of "The Great Santini" brings a tear to my eye and a chill down my spine. Great movie about how so many of us grew up behind the wire.

[tabs]

Originally Posted by Dueller

Oh, don't get me wrong. I know he did it honorably and in the service of his country and his fellow soldiers. And his own survival. When he came home on a stretcher after his last tour in 'nam, I know he spoke of it on a limited basis to my mother as she shared with me his somber mood was likely as a partial result of a young NCO that he had taken under his wing, barely older than me, dieing in the firefight he was wounded in.

I was too young to serve in 'nam and too old during the Gulf war...so men of my generation never witnessed the horror of war first hand.

There is no honor in war. Only brutality and destruction. There is only survival and being dead.

[KevinP73]

Originally Posted by tabs

There is no honor in war. Only brutality and destruction. There is only survival and being dead.

Perhaps you can do us all a favor and demonstrate the latter for us.

[sammyg2]

My father spent most of his life designing and developing explosives and rockets/missiles. Some for civilian use, most for the military, including nuke delivery systems.

The concept of deaths he contributed to has never come up and never will. I bet it's crossed his mind though.

[mikester]

Dad was in the Airforce for 20 starting in 73, same year I was born.

He was in the squadron that went to Iran to free the hostages. A few other 'actions' including Desert Storm but generally doesn't talk much of it. Grandfather was in WW2 in Germany and didn't talk about it until he was well into his 80s. He only talked about the men he served with and some of their 'adventures' not really the fighting or anything. I didn't push it, I should try to get a copy of his DD214.

[Moses]

My dad joined the Marines at age 15 in part because his family couldn't feed him in dust bowl/depression era Oklahoma.

At 16 he was a machine gunner on Guadalcanal. Wounded three times. Lots of killing.

After the war he became an Oakland cop. More violence. And more killing.

He's 83 years old now. When he speaks of the war he talks about malaria and misery and friends. He's never discussed combat much.

He quit hunting years ago. He's a vegetarian now. He's seen enough killing.

[Seahawk]

The best part of the men we are talking about is their humility.

My Dad was West Point, '52...Korea, Vietnam. He left the service in dismay after his second tour, 1967. Ranger Tab, Airborne, Man.

I asked him, as a brash, ignorant young man, had he killed anyone, I was probably 15. His response was, "Not for you to know." End of discussion.

During my turn(s) in the barrel as a Navy guy, he would always say, "Do your best."

It as enough for him.

[masraum]

My dad was in the military (retired from the Navy) during Vietnam, but because of what he did, he was able to do it from a distance. I have an Uncle that was a Sea Bee and my grandfather wis in the military in WWII in the Pacific (Army I think). I've been told that my grandfather didn't really talk about it. I also work with a Marine that was in the first division/battalion/whatever to go into Kuwait after Iraq invaded. I asked him a bit about it the other day. He didn't say much, but he said enough to indicate that it wasn't a fun or nice time. I think he said that he was shot or hit by shrapnel 2 or 3 times.

I just finished reading Suddenly We Didn't Want to Die: Memoirs of a World War I Marine (9780891415930): Elton Mackin

It was very interesting. I'm looking for more books like it, and have a few books on WWI that I'm getting ready to read.

Even with shows that I've seen and things that I've read, I don't think I can begin to image what war would be like. I'm probably very lucky.

[Ronbo]

I worked with a guy who was a Vietnam veteran. He did 2 or 3 tours and was a "grunt" in the Marines. In contrast to the others mentioned here who rarely spoke of their experiences in battle, you could hardly get this guy to stop talking about them. A day wouldn't pass without endless talk of fire fights in Vietnam. The stories were interesting the first few times hearing them, but man did they get old after a while. He had his picture book in the office for display.

[KevinP73]

Originally Posted by Ronbo

I worked with a guy who was a Vietnam veteran. He did 2 or 3 tours and was a "grunt" in the Marines. In contrast to the others mentioned here who rarely spoke of their experiences in battle, you could hardly get this guy to stop talking about them. .

Just my humble and uneducated opinion but this guy is probably one of the lucky ones who could "vent" about the experience. Doesn't make it any less traumatic for him.

[Dueller]

Originally Posted by Ronbo

I worked with a guy who was a Vietnam veteran. He did 2 or 3 tours and was a "grunt" in the Marines. In contrast to the others mentioned here who rarely spoke of their experiences in battle, you could hardly get this guy to stop talking about them. A day wouldn't pass without endless talk of fire fights in Vietnam. The stories were interesting the first few times hearing them, but man did they get old after a while. He had his picture book in the office for display.

I've run across a few of that genre...fortunately they seem to be less common mowadays.

In contrast to this personna, my father though retired from the Army has no "ego wall"in the den...when he retired, he put away anything indicating he was in the military. The exception being his purple heart license plate when he bought my mom a new car a few years back for their 50th wedding annivesary...I think it saved him a bundle on ad valorem tax

Case in point. A few years ago my 5 and 7 y.o. nephews were visiting for Christmas. They had received some type of military toys and were playing in the living room. My brother mentioned to them "Poppa" was in the Army. That piqued their interests and they innocently began questioning my Dad...were you in a war...did you shoot anyone...did you ever get shot? (he did for that matter...he has a total of 18 bullet wounds in his legs/abdomen...seen/counted the scars myself at the beach when I was a kid).

He non-chalantly deflected their questions, save for "Did you win any medals? He responded by reaching into a drawer in his desk and pulling out a gallon siplock bag. From it he pulled out 2 purple hearts and pinned them on their shirts. That satisfied them and they resumed their play. Later, my brother pulled his sons aside and took the medals from them with the promise he'd save them for them.

My brother tried to give them back to my dad but dad said, "Let them keep them if they want them." And that was that.