I have been reading this thread since Shaun posted it. Shaun. You did the right thing calling the cops.
I'm not sure I would have handled it quite like you did, but...I'm not you. I tend to be diplomatic in almost everything I do.
At the point where the dirt bag said "he'll need a complete accounting for...blah blah blah" I would have said that this discussion is not for you but for my employee. If he puffed up, like he did, then I would have told him he needed to leave.
Not quite sure how I would react if he got beligerrent. I am not a fighter by any means. I have not been in a fist fight since grade school. Even then I can count them on two fingers. (none started by me) Childish behavior in my opinion.
I got the living ***** beat out of me when I was about 21 by five complete strangers in Santa Cruz. (BTW, I was minding my own business.) They were looking for a fight. I had no contact with these people, no interaction, no nothing! They were just looking for trouble and found me. I did manage to break one of the guys arms over the bed rail of my truck and get some good licks on a couple of them before I had my arms pinned and the biggest of the five used me as a punching bag. I spent a week in the hospital with a fractured skull and years of bad dreams to follow. NOT WORTH IT!!!
You never know what is going to set someone off.
If it came down to protecting my family...thats another story. There is enough whoop ass left in my old bones that I would give it all I had.
Shaun. Watch your back and be safe.

You are wrong man.

Touching someone else in a threatening manner is ASSAULT AND BATTERY.

Look it up, you are just plain not correct. Shaun was a victim of assault and battery, and was absolutely within his rights to punch that guy dead in the mouth in self defense.

Not including their childhoods, teen years and amatuer fights!

Any kid growing up in philly in a melting pot neighborhood is going to get into dozens of fights. That's before he even graudates high school. LOL.

Then toss in years in the military fighting the artillerymen and marines in bars, years as a bartender/doorman, and years as a repossessor.

My fight total is entirely typical for anyone that has lived the sort of life i have.

And just so anyone doesn't think i'm merely bragging like a tough guy, i have lost dozens of those fights. My win % is probably a bit over 65% i guess. (of course a lot of the fights were mismatches or started with me getting sucker punched)

It is worth it to clock the other guy for no other reason than to prevent him from sucker punching you and potentially doing damage you cannot recover from on swing one. I would DEFINITELY punch a guy that had just threatened me with physical contact to prevent him from suckering me.

It's just plain that simple.

Too funny... the panty thread gets political and a social discussion gets panties :confused:

MHO There is a time and place for both reactions. Also in MHO Shaun chose the right course of action for his situation. There is a time for cooler heads and there is a time for action. I spoke with Shaun today. He is talking the appropriate actions be be able to defend himself in the future if needed, (you'd be proud of him Snipe ;) )
Snipe is correct. It was assault, by the law it was assault.

Lots of people who were "within their rights" that now are dead or in jail.

Stupid decisions generally get stupid results. Discretion is the better part of valor. But ymmv and obviously does.

It is not self defense if you say you did not start it and two people are saying you did. Even if Shaun pushed him down the stairs in self defense, it would not be worth the trouble he would have to deal with, time away from his business. You can be in the right, win the fight and still come out a loser(sorry OJU, I meant looser)

I had a disgruntled patient who was looking for disability and was not happy with my exam findings. He came in and was getting squirrelly, making threats etc. I told him he needed to leave now or he could catch a ride with the cops when they got there. I guess I could have just pulled my .38 out of my back pocket and killed him, as he did threaten me in front of several witnesses, and was pounding on the door to the back office, but I did not.

Another incident at our home in Texas. Neighbor kids, underage drunk on our dock, causing trouble. My neighbor and I went out to ask them to leave, the discussion got pretty heated, which got my wife out there too. After all was said and done, they left, the cops came and nothing really happened.

Later on, we were sitting on the patio, debriefing so to speak. Turns out I was the only one without a pistol during the entire confrontation, wife had a .38, Ricky had his .357. I am glad Heather did not shoot anyone, she is a bit hot headed and a fine shot.

If they would have been on the wrong side of the fence yapping like that, she would have at the very least pistol whipped a MFer.

man card revocation pending.

no, this clearly is the bigger man card revocation offense

Uh... yeah... obviously.

But I'm not quite sure why anyone is addressing Shaun at this point... he hasn't been heard from since yesterday (Friday) at 11:08 AM.

Kinda strange and... makes you wonder if things have gone down the tubes since then, doesn't it?

Speeder's initial take was right. Shaun was asking for an ass whupping. He is a tough-talking wise-ass, but with no intent to back it up if necessary...and in this case, disrespected the fellow in front of his girl. The fellow knew that Shaun was not the kind of fellow that would be able to put up much of a fight...or have the intestinal fortitude to do so. The fellow returned the disrespect and gave Shaun every opportunity to take a swing...which would have given him an excuse to beat the crap out of Shaun and redeem himsef in front of his girl. Instead, Shaun came off as a wuss and the guy feels that he showed his girl that he may not have a job...but he is the more manly of the men in her life. Although this is not always the most effective way to impress a girl...it is all the guy had at the time...and likely made him feel better. Shaun's calling the cops on him likely further helped make his case regarding Shaun's masculinity.

Snipe is wrong as well. This was Shaun's place of business. Don't crap in your own nest...especially when the only witness is sleeping with your antagonist (unless she likes you better). Let him go...but be ready to run into him again somewhere else and kick his butt. Get the RO, it is a good strategy...because then after you pound him...he goes to jail, win or lose.

AFAIK, Shaun's at his show, making hay. Just as he intended.

Spoke with Shaun this afternoon, (as I posted earlier), and is doing fine. He is in NYC taking care of business and hasn't been online.

Good news... missed that.

there are two douche bags in this thread & only one of them was on shaun's stairs that day.

i should have known..this thread is long because sniper is, well being sniper.

i think shaun did the right thing. not every angry contact needs to escalate into a brawl. hell, this attitude practically invented road rage. shaun defended himself, and his property. kudos.

I won't dispute that at all.

Shrug.

Meh, grumble, grumble. ;)

Having been sucker punched to pretty devastating effect a few times in my life (had my left cheek bone broke clean in two once on a sucker punch), i do not take chances. Also, being a smaller guy, i doubly do not take chances. Give me some kind of territorial head-butt or other warning of impending violence, and it's on. Every time, 100% of the time, it's on.

I'm not giving away the strategic first strike. It's not worth the risk. I don't care if i get sued. It's better then getting shanked because i failed to seize the initiative.

I see what you guys are saying about getting sued (my dad was sued many times a club owner, but it's always for peanuts- never over $10k), but i'd rather get judged by 12 than carried by 6 any day. Call me crazy.

You have my rationale.

Problem soled, right here
Fire the temp, too many variables, replace her with Epic Beard Man. Problem solved. Next :D

Having grown up in a rough neighborhood (attended Paterson Eastside High School in the 60's) and having had to defend my self many times I understand Sniper's attitude.

Now as a partially handicapped man I've lost the ability to use my fists to defend myself. And believe me there are people out there that don't care that I'm handicapped. So I've had to find different ways of dealing with stuff that happens and mostly look for ways to avoid the situation entirely.

Sniper bro I wouldn't mind having you in my corner at all if the sheet hit the fan, but if you managed to talk your way out of it you'd still have my respect. Maybe even more so for my knowing that you are capable of administering a severe beating.

Around here, we call someone a douche bag directly by name, (or at least handle). None of this 3rd person/blind item crap.

Man card revocation pending. :cool:

I completely understand, (and respect), this rationale. I have been sucker-punched as well and have a life-long scar above my eye to show for it. My only comment or difference would be that to an experienced fighter such as yourself, a true sucker-punch must come out of left field. Once someone is face-to-face with me and showing aggression, a sucker-punch is no longer possible. Unless they are Bruce Lee, they have to load-up. Unless it's Uma Thurman delivering the 5-step/5-fingers of death, there is plenty enough warning for me.

One key point is to never let someone get into the strike zone when having a verbal confrontation. I don't care if you are Sugar Ray Leonard, you cannot sucker-punch me from across the room. Shaun actually moved himself into this guy's strike zone and put himself into an indefensible situation once they were eyeball-to-eyeball. I'm sure that the other guy closed the final gap that allowed the head-push but at that point you have lost all field of vision and will not see the *sucker-knee* to the groin or uppercut to the chin that leads to a very painful nap when someone breaks your bones while you are unconscious. Very stupid and usually done by someone with zero fighting experience or ability. When someone jumps into my face during a verbal confrontation, if they are lucky they will get a hard push-off or a biotch slap. If they're lucky. If I take their threat more seriously, it will be an uppercut or a forearm to the mouth. The key is to avoid/prevent that situation in the first place and it's almost always avoidable.