HFO 1234yf

[mattdavis11]

R134a is going bye bye. Prices are already through the roof. I have plenty.

DuPont and Honeywell joined for the production of HFO 1234yf in case anyone wanted to know. The Euros were headed that way and it's not a huge surprise to those that mind these matters.

Not sure what to think about the HFO, but 1234you'refuched came to mind. I'm ready to play around with some. Some reading pleasure...

http://www.favstocks.com/honeywell-and-dupont-form-jv-to-manufacture-low-gwp-refrigerant-hfo-1234yf-for-mobile-ac/2014230/

[Hugh R]

Thanks for the tip, I'll start hoarding when I get home.

[mattdavis11]

Not really knowing what to expect, I loaded up Feb 1. $100 for 30lbs, $45 cases of 12oz cans at Sam's Club was the best place to buy. There have been a few deals here and there, but not many.

It might come back down, but R12 never did, to the public.

I don't want to make this political, you either know it or you don't. There's not much of an appeasing argument.

[porsche4life]

So will this new crap swap in like 134 did?

[mattdavis11]

I bet it will be drop in, but there will be tons of speculators saying it won't. By speculators, I mean the people that say you have to change out all the o-rings, change the oil, flush the lines, replace the drier, etc.... Basically, people that are full of shyte. I would recon the fittings are going to change again, with that goes the connectors on manifold gauges too, obviously.

We shall see, but I won't be replacing my 27 year old drier (that has seen both refrigerants and respective oils) when I test. I bet I don't have any of the new stuff in my hands for awhile though.

[Por_sha911]

From what I've read, it is supposed to be a drop in replacement for 134a but we shall see if it really works as well.
More bad news: they are changing the stuff used for home HVAC and it requires a full swap out of equipment as well.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Christ almighty...

I'm glad I've still got lots of r12. Time to load up on r134a too.

[Rick Lee]

Would you believe my 993 still blows ice cold and the a/c has never been serviced? And I'm going on my third summer in AZ. When did they switch to R134? I'm assuming I have that, but am not sure.

[billybek]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

When did they switch to R134? I'm assuming I have that, but am not sure.

Early 90s. As a result of the Montreal Protocol, CFCs production stopped and many temporary refrigerants were introduced.
R134a was not suppose to be a temporary refrigerant though. It is not just used in automotive applications but in everything from home refrigerators to large centrifugal chillers that cool office buildings and hospitals.
The real problem with refrigerants is not the proper use and recovery of the refrigerant, it is use by the manufacturers of blown foam products that also have legal access to these refrigerants for producing their products.
The automotive sector is also a bit of a problem due to the fact that it is essentially mobile air conditioning that is subjected to high heat, vibration and lack of regular service and leak checks. Most problem systems come in empty.
Now most pure refrigerants are going bye bye and we will have to deal with whatever the new designer blend of gasses are offered to us.
Oh R134a is a contributor to global warming in case you were wondering.
It is interesting that new compounds are introduced as a solution only to later be determined to cause other problems.
Keep your cool!

[mattdavis11]

By other problems arising from changes to the refrigerant at the molecular level. I hear they are going to have to redesign evaporators, but that's just hearsay, and it doesn't quite make sense. More surface area, yada, yada. If so, I'd be willing to bet that it will be parallel flow so as to make them no longer serviceable. By that I mean flushable, so when a compressor eats itself internally, shooting metal down the lines, you have to replace it. Ripping out the dash comes to mind.

Condensers are already there (parallel flow/ micro tube, more heat dissipation due to surface area), but it's bullshyte, tube and fin condensers work just fine, if you know what you are doing.

The production of R12 was mandated to stop in 1995, most 1994 year model cars were already 134.

[masraum]

R134a at the local parts places is about $10 a can and has been for the last couple of years. I guess I need to find the good deals and buy some since I've got leaky AC. Or better yet, maybe I should just get the AC fixed.

[m21sniper]

The new stuff is violently explosive, is it not?

[billybek]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

The new stuff is violently explosive, is it not?

According to Dupont, mildly flammable.
SmartAutoAC :: HFO-1234yf Refrigerant

[m21sniper]

To me, mildly flammable= very dangerous and potentially explosive when under pressure.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

To me, mildly flammable= very dangerous and potentially explosive when under pressure.

So is gasoline and we use that in cars...