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-   -   Deporting our American Values (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/555311-deporting-our-american-values.html)

Superman 07-26-2010 11:18 AM
Truth be told, Tobra, I throw these clay pidgeons into the air for the purpose of discussion. I believe public policy is terribly important, and the dialogue is necessary for that. Sometimes I caricaturize a position, for purposes of discussion. I'm not sure I disagree with anything posted here so far. Like virtually everyone else, I support legal immigration, and oppose illegal immigration. And quite frankly, here in my geographical area, the hispanics ARE operating the hardest-working landscaping companies and their children really do help pick cherries.

But you know....there is a side-benefit to catalyzing these discussions. Entertainment. I get to see people making over-generalizations about entire groups of people, and even name-calling. Now.....remind me again about your maturity and circumspection.

Groesbeck Hurricane 07-26-2010 01:51 PM
OOOHHHH SUPE IN LEATHER PANTS!!!! Coo,,,,,, sorry, never mind, going away again

Scuba Steve 07-26-2010 02:06 PM
I grew up in south Texas. This story does not describe the immigrants I knew. For the most part they seem to have come here for the free stuff. Not a lot of iniative but plenty of wanting everyone else to conform to their way of doing things. It didn't matter that they or their parents were in the country unlawfully.

m21sniper 07-26-2010 02:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superman (Post 5473378)
It has been said that the American spirit, our culture, nearly expired but has been saved. By Mexican-Americans. They start with nothing, add generous amounts of HARD work, efficient budgeting, serving small niches that native-born Americans will not trifle with, and build their livelihoods and families on a foundation of traditional values. They attend church, start each day early in the morning and thank God at the end of each day. They win some and lose some, but make bullish progress forward.

They bring their kids to work, assign them chores and teach them values. One-on-one teaching, the kind kids remember. They eat as families. They get together as communities of families.

In short, they are pursuing the America our grandparents pursued, but that our kids apparently will not. While our kids will compete for jobs as video game beta testers, their kids will change our tires and make our meals. While our kids borrow money to drive the newest Infinity, their kids will buy and restore old Porsche 997’s while saving 10% of their income.

Alas…..we don’t welcome people with brown faces and dark brown shoulders who would teach our nation the values of our grandfathers. We pretend they are taking our jobs, but I see no native-born competition when it comes time to pick cherries.

Are we afraid? Who are we afraid of? Are we afraid of these industrious people? Perhaps we should be.
What they are pursuing is the reconquista.

I support sending the illegals home at the ends of bayonets, if necessary.

nostatic 07-26-2010 03:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobra (Post 5473565)
Todd, the pathetic or the ignorant part or both?
I was making a joke (ie that if you say "pathetic" or "ignorant" you don't need to add "liberal" as it is implied), which seems to be cw around here.

The 800lb elephant that isn't being addressed here are the big businesses that profit from the cheap illegal labor. Yes, everyone is all for legal immigration. But some companies and industries are all for cheap labor, and darned if that usually isn't composed of illegal immigrants. Paul talks about the illegals wanting the benefit without paying the price. While I agree that is the case with some, I'd add that there are businesses that want the benefit without paying the price - and the illegals are their fodder.

Jim Richards 07-26-2010 04:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nostatic (Post 5474038)
The 800lb elephant that isn't being addressed here are the big businesses that profit from the cheap illegal labor. Yes, everyone is all for legal immigration. But some companies and industries are all for cheap labor, and darned if that usually isn't composed of illegal immigrants. Paul talks about the illegals wanting the benefit without paying the price. While I agree that is the case with some, I'd add that there are businesses that want the benefit without paying the price - and the illegals are their fodder.
Yes, it seems awfully strange that few focus on business complicity in the illegal issue.

Rick Lee 07-26-2010 04:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nostatic (Post 5474038)

The 800lb elephant that isn't being addressed here are the big businesses that profit from the cheap illegal labor.
Which big businesses are these aside from meat processing plants nowhere near border states? I don't recall seeing any illegals working at large corp. chains in AZ or even in CA. I see plenty of them standing out in front of them looking for day laborer jobs. I see plenty of them working for local landscapers and mom and pop restaurants. Is there some giant lobby for small landscapers and restaurant owners trying to protect illegals? We have some pretty stiff penalties in AZ for businesses caught hiring illegals. Second offense is permanent revocation of business license. And that law doesn't seem to raise any kind of controversy, while SB 1070 has peope in a tizzy.

McLovin 07-26-2010 05:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nostatic (Post 5474038)

The 800lb elephant that isn't being addressed here are the big businesses that profit from the cheap illegal labor. Yes, everyone is all for legal immigration. But some companies and industries are all for cheap labor, and darned if that usually isn't composed of illegal immigrants. Paul talks about the illegals wanting the benefit without paying the price. While I agree that is the case with some, I'd add that there are businesses that want the benefit without paying the price - and the illegals are their fodder.
1) What exactly are these "big" businesses? Walmart? GM? or is it strictly agricultural businesses? If it is, what "big" ag corps are hiring all these illegals?? I ask this seriously, because I've worked with many big bizs over my career, in all sorts of areas, and I've never known of a single one that would knowingly hire an illegal. How can any big (or publicly traded) corporation ever get away with it? There's some investigative reporters asleep at the switch if big companies are routinely knowingly hiring thousands of illegals. Do so is a major violation of law.

2) In any event, we should strictly enforce our borders and promptly send back all illegals, to protect them from being used as fodder by these corporations.

nostatic 07-26-2010 05:21 PM
ok, include small businesses. In Los Angeles, garment and other manufacturing. In the rest of CA, agriculture. Restaurant, hotel, construction, etc. Some big, some small. Most turning a blind eye to it. There is knowing and then there is "knowing."

McLovin 07-26-2010 05:23 PM
So why is there no legal enforcement against those companies? Who is preventing that from happening?

m21sniper 07-26-2010 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Richards (Post 5474235)
Yes, it seems awfully strange that few focus on business complicity in the illegal issue.
No illegals; no business complicity issue.

Of course big business will just replace that many more of us with robots. Eventually they will replace every one of us with robots.

McLovin 07-26-2010 05:25 PM
Also, would you, as a pathetic liberal, be in favor of law enforcement checking in with the HR depts of these garment, ag, restaurant, bizs to make sure their employee paperwork is in order?

Jim Richards 07-26-2010 05:28 PM
McLoveShackBaby, try not to PARF this thread, please.

m21sniper 07-26-2010 05:39 PM
I was standing in Lowes tonight buying spackle, annoyed at the fact that such a vast store has only one cashier working, and disgusted by the self-check out lanes that used to house living, breathing American workers.

I am sure that i would rather have a mexican take my money than a machine.

Big business doesn't care one whit about us at all. It's all about the profit margins and the quarterly dividends.

They'd replace their own mothers with machines if it made a positive impact on the bottom line...

nostatic 07-26-2010 05:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by McLovin (Post 5474372)
Also, would you, as a pathetic liberal, be in favor of law enforcement checking in with the HR depts of these garment, ag, restaurant, bizs to make sure their employee paperwork is in order?
Sure. Guilty until proven innocent. Better yet, since illegals are part and parcel to the destruction of the country (per many here), shouldn't these businesses be doing their due diligence on their own as part of their patriotic duty? And in fact, isn't their hiring of illegals treasonous? Maybe *they* should be deported. They are putting profits over the country.

Shocking...who could imagine such a thing?

No wait, capitalism. All is fair in love and war, right? Maybe the business owners who *don't* hire illegals are treasonous because they're not maximizing profit.

McLovin 07-26-2010 05:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nostatic (Post 5474403)
Sure. Guilty until proven innocent.
That would not be the case. It's just an audit.

Is it "guilty until proven innocent" when the IRS randomly audits? When you take your car in for a smog check?

nostatic 07-26-2010 05:59 PM
OK. Lot's of businesses out there, how do we choose which to audit first? The one with lots of brown skinned employees?

And if we find they're illegal, do we deport the business owners? Seems they are acting in a treasonous manner.

Oh wait...they checked their papers...wink wink nudge nudge. They're the victim...

Jim Richards 07-26-2010 06:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nostatic (Post 5474446)
and if we find they're illegal, do we deport the business owners? Seems they are acting in a treasonous manner.
ok :d

sammyg2 07-26-2010 06:02 PM
Maybe compared to supe and his union leeches, but not when compared to most of us.

Red88Carrera 07-26-2010 06:02 PM
There's much more incentive for companies not to check for illegals than there is for them to do a simple verification. What we need is much harsher penalties for company brass that allows/encourages it to happen. Not just monetary fines, but serious prison time.


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