Nissan Electric Car: $20.9k. GM Electric Car: $41k

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Yep, more GM fail. Taxpayer funded, same old stupid uncompetitive nonsense.

The Nissan Leaf will be for sale at almost $10k less than the Nissan model - and that's AFTER a federal tax credit (which will undoubtedly go away before too long).

Is there anyone left out there who doesn't believe this company shouldn't have been left to liquidate?

- - - - -

Chevy prices Volt at $41,000 but will push leases - Los Angeles Times

- - - - -

Chevy prices Volt at $41,000 but will push leases
A federal tax credit would shave the electric car's price to $33,500. The carmaker turns heads by offering leases as low as $350 a month. The rival Nissan Leaf will sell for as little as $20,280 or lease for $349 a month.

July 27, 2010
By Jerry Hirsch, Los Angeles Times

The Chevrolet Volt, the first mass-market electric vehicle from General Motors Co., will have a sticker price starting at $41,000 when it hits showrooms this year, but it was the attractive lease offer that the automaker announced Tuesday that grabbed the attention of industry analysts.

Chevrolet plans to offer a lease program on the Volt with a monthly payment as low as $350 for 36 months plus $2,500 due at lease signing, a deal that could speed up adoption of the new generation of automobiles by making them competitive with traditional gasoline-powered vehicles.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

That lease program worked great for the EV1.

[Talewinds]

That asinine price tag was predicted a couple of years ago. I guess the shipment of FAIL has arrived.
I just can't find the words so I sit here and shake my head.

[krystar]

41k for a moderate sedan...that's comparable to a camry....uhhh NO

for 41k, u can get a damn good luxury sedan from any of the japanese or euro brands

[herr_oberst]

I think GM was between a rock and a hard place - they had to greenlight the thing, because it has been in the news for so long, but they couldn't subsidize the price because the stockholders (us taxpayers) would have none of it, so they have to roll it out at a price that makes a 'profit'.

This will no doubt be the new EV1.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Chevy vs a new 3-series........that's a tough one. Hell, I'd rather have a hybrid and $10k in my pocket.

[MotoSook]

Plug in electric vehicle are indirect polluters. Simply stupid idea until we clean up electricity generation. Sure makes the tree huggers fell good tho...


A 335 diesel would be more environmentally friendly at 23-36MPG at ~40K.

[john70t]

Cool electric vehicle links
The above link is from 2007.
Many of those companies are out of business for lack of funding, but if the government actually wanted to get electric vehicles on the road, they would have had plenty of options besides GM.

GM is actually an anti-electric car company.
From buying up electric trolleys on the 50's though Intercity Lines, to the EVI bait-and-switch fiasco, to buying marketshare in Ovtronics(NiMH patent holder) and then suing to stop the sale of vehicle sized batterys, GM has done its best to stop the progress of electric vehicles.

Irony.....or something more evil and sinister? Only the shadow government knows.

[john70t]

There are still a few contenders in the 100mpg challenge: Automotive X Prize — Autoblog Green.
Although the record in controlled conditions is: 2,757.1 MPG at 2009 Shell Eco-marathon Americas - United States, the X-Prize uses real world conditions.

[Oh Haha]

They probably need the cash to buy Americredit.

I read today that GM is getting back into the financing business with this purchase.

I think the Volt is a good looking car but I just don't see where folks will run out and buy one at this time.

Gas is still cheap here so what is the incentive?

[id911T]

Not that I'm defending GM, but this really isn't a fair comparison. The Leaf is an EV. Once you go the 100 or so miles, you're SOL until it's recharged. The Volt is more of a range extending plug-in hybrid. Once the all electric range is used up (~40 miles) it has an engine that can recharge the batteries and power the vehicle, giving a total range of 340ish miles. Given the major technical differences between these two architectures, why wouldn't you expect the price to be different? One is an metropolitan commuter with limited range and one is a full featured vehicle.



Apples to oranges I say.........

[rick-l]

I bet that last 300 miles is a pretty exciting ride.

What is it, a Honda generator?

[id911T]

They changed the spec a few times over the years, but I think the final release uses a 53kW generator to supply the propulsion motor and charge the battery. Of course, since the battery SOC isn't run down to zero, short term accelerations during charge sustaining operation can still use the full 111kW of the main traction motor. So it should drive about the same.

[john70t]

One thing of concern is the Volt battery life.
How long do batteries last when they are fully discharged during the morning commute, then remain discharged all day until pluged in at night?

[id911T]

You know, I've wondered about this myself, not just for the Volt. But with the last vehicle we built I talked to A123 and Saft, and both said that the latest and greatest Li traction batteries aren't phased by that type of cycling at all. The A123 rep said that their batteries can be run to 0% SOC without damage. Our old NiMH batts would be toast if we did that. Heck, anything below 20% was in danger of permanent battery capacity loss.

[rick-l]

Originally Posted by id911T

They changed the spec a few times over the years, but I think the final release uses a 53kW generator to supply the propulsion motor and charge the battery. Of course, since the battery SOC isn't run down to zero, short term accelerations during charge sustaining operation can still use the full 111kW of the main traction motor. So it should drive about the same.

Is there a website where all this data is listed? Is 53 kW the output of the generator or the output of the gas engine?

[id911T]

Originally Posted by rick-l

Is there a website where all this data is listed? Is 53 kW the output of the generator or the output of the gas engine?

I snagged that off wikipedia. It's been awhile since I've kept up with the project, so I'm not sure if that is 53kW electrical output or not.



Edit: Just found it, it's 53kW electrical output.

[David]

The Leaf is $33K and the Volt is $41K. Still a big difference, but not $21K.

[RWebb]

the Leaf is a commuter car and needs a high density of charging facilities for any trip

with its 320 mile cruising range, the Volt can go on any lonely hwy for very little gas $$ -- that means it has a MUCH bigger market area

another factor is that Nissan may be able to lose money on the sales of the Leaf; GM is sufficiently weak that it may not be able to do so

prices need to take into account the rebates & fuel costs/cost of ownership

[jyl]

The OP doesn't consider that the Leaf ($33K before $7K credit) and the Volt ($41K before $7K credit) are very different cars.

The Leaf can only drive 100 miles - maybe. Reviewers are finding that actual range can be as low as 60 miles and as high as 140 miles, depends on on how and where you drive. So the Leaf is a very limited vehicle. For almost anyone, the Leaf can't be their only car, it has to be a second, commuting car for a customer who somehow has plenty of parking but doesn't live too far out in the suburbs. The mass market will not pay much for that, it's not even a mass market car.

The Volt has all the capabilities of a normal car. You have unlimited range, assuming there are gas stations. No worries about the car running out of juice 10 miles from home, or whether you can find a parking place next to an electrical outlet. For most people, the Volt could be their only car. The mass market will pay substantially more for that.

How much will they pay for a Volt? Well, Priuses are selling at appx 170K/yr unit rate (as of May) with typical price $27-28K. I'm not seeing why I'd pay $6-7K more for a Volt, but perhaps GM is okay with selling, say, 30-50K/yr Volts at first, then getting the cost down as volumes rise. If GM is saying they will see 200K/yr Volts (I haven't heard that) then I think they are going to be disappointed.