Any Inventors?

[FLYONWALL9]

I've only owned my P-car for going on one year now. That short amount of time was enough for me to realize the infectious nature of its owners. I have come up with three very good strong idea's for products that cater to our beloved brand. They could also carry over to ANY financial motor vehicle group, which to me makes it a great idea. Its not just one market group. I've spent the past few weeks searching the net and many countries for my idea and have yet to even come close. This could mean two things, its so far in left field that no way in hell would it make a dime OR I'm a genius and have found an undiscovered market. We all at some point discover a better way of doing things or improve upon an already existing product. My idea needs to be further explored, however, I need to protect myself before I let the cat out of the bag.

So, I ask does anyone here have a patent or know the process or any patent lawyers? I get that a mountain of paper needs to be filed, I don't see someone beating me to market anytime real soon. A show of hands and a bit of guidance would be wonderful.

Thanks one and all,
Scott

[Danny_Ocean]

It's been done...

[FLYONWALL9]

Though that is a great idea, what I have in mind is the farthest you can get from what you posted. I mean not even in the same country let alone ballpark.

[Danny_Ocean]

[FLYONWALL9]

Trust me, you will never in a lifetime guess what I've come up with. BUT, once its in production you will surely want one! That is what makes it so great

[Danny_Ocean]

[aigel]

Scott,

Have you searched the US patent database?
Have you tried google scholar?

My experience is that if it is a good idea - someone already had it. Only if it is very specific to a certain field is there usually something left to invent.

Generally, if you have to do a patent application, it will run >5k. That's just to have a patent in the US. That will not protect your idea world wide. Also, by filing for a patent, your patent will eventually become public and everyone can see it. It is easily ripped off by anyone. Even if someone blatantly takes your idea and runs with it - how are you going to defend your patent? Your legal department?

Be weary of companies advertising looking for "inventors". If you get serious about getting a patent, go through professional references - find someone that works with an office. It doesn't take much to put together a patent that the patent office will accept, but that doesn't mean it will hold up in court when you need to defend it.

And often a patent isn't even defendable, because with a few tricks the people that rip you off build a similar idea based on yours. They may have never had the similar idea without reading your patent. but that will still be okay.

I know people that have invented things and tried to sell their IP to large companies. In every cfase I know the large company said "thanks but we have our own R&D group" - not interested.

In summary, I would not worry about filing a patent. If you need outside help from any business, file a non disclosure agreement with them. That will protect your idea. I.e. if you have a machineshop build you something or if you have a test lab measure something for your project. Once you know that you have something and you are getting close to selling it through Wayne, put in a basic patent application and stamp the part "patent pending" to discourage blatant copies.

Hope this helps?

George

PS: A lot of large companies keep "trade secrets". Coca Cola doesn't go out and patent their recipe - they keep it locked up instead. Would be too easy to use the recipe and change a couple of ingredients to call it something else.

[FLYONWALL9]

Originally Posted by aigel

Scott,

Have you searched the US patent database?
Have you tried google scholar?

Only if it is very specific to a certain field is there usually something left to invent.
Hope this helps?

George.

George,

Yes, it does help greatly. I have searched nearly everything, trade marks for its name, current product in nearly every market I could think of. However, I have not looked through Google Scholar, or the Patent Database. I didn't know those were avail online.

The product is very specific to a current market, I honestly think with the type of people we are talking about, it will sell. I just have to make it in such a way as to protect myself and the idea.

I think my very best first step would be prototype, based on that pictures, prints can be taken and then patented?

I've gone before one of those 'invention' companies the money that they wanted to develop and market the idea was simply ridiculous. Besides that, if you presented them with the product idea and you did not follow through they could then take your idea. If my memory serves me it was on the order of 25-35k. That was for an extremely simple fishing product I had/have in mind. Needless to say I would rather go it on my own.

[unclebilly]

YUP. I have around 20 applications and 5 granted patents spanning the last 10 years.

What you should do is file a us provisional which gives you a year to vet out if this is something worth persuing further. I think it is around $2k to file the provisional.

Depending on your idea, you may want to go pct which doesn't work with a provisional. I'd suggest you file the provisional, disclose only with an NDA and then if the idea has merit, go pct and use the priority date of the provisional to file.

go to United States Patent and Trademark Office and do a prior art search before you spend any $$$,

remember the following:

1. a patent must be novel, useful, and inventive.
2. there is no such thing as patent cops. all a patent does is give you the right to sue someone that you feel is infringing on your patent. the onus is on you to prove the infringement. if you are successful getting a patent granted and don't have the $$$ to defend your patent should someone choose to infringe, you just wasted your $$$ getting the patent.
3. oh, and there are 2 types of patents, design and utility patents. My comments above refer to utility patents. see Patents Guidance, Tools & Manuals for more details.

[unclebilly]

Oh, and remember, you patent the idea, not the prototype. Most patent lawyers won't let you include photos as images (though i have seen this in prior art searches in the past).

In some countries such as Canada, it is first to file whereas in the US, it is first to invent.

[Seahawk]

I have 2 provisional patents and 1 granted. The below tracks exactly to my experience.

I would add that it is best to talk to an experienced patent lawyer once you have dine your due diligence. I know one who has been great. PM me if you want to talk with him...first phone call would be gratis

In the 80's I came up with an idea for a car accessory that I thought had merit. This was, of course, pre internet. I was fortunate to be living in San Diego at the time and had a college friend who was a lawyer in LA.

His advice to me, especially in the car market, was that you have to find a trusted, known manufacturer who has a solid reputation in the business. "If not, they'll be stamping your product out by the thousands in Mexico by the time you get in your car and drive home after the first meeting when you brief you idea".

It took some time, but I found the right guy...the idea, oddly, ended up as a toy, which was never patented!

Good luck.

Originally Posted by unclebilly

YUP. I have around 20 applications and 5 granted patents spanning the last 10 years.

What you should do is file a us provisional which gives you a year to vet out if this is something worth persuing further. I think it is around $2k to file the provisional.

Depending on your idea, you may want to go pct which doesn't work with a provisional. I'd suggest you file the provisional, disclose only with an NDA and then if the idea has merit, go pct and use the priority date of the provisional to file.

go to United States Patent and Trademark Office and do a prior art search before you spend any $$$,

remember the following:

1. a patent must be novel, useful, and inventive.
2. there is no such thing as patent cops. all a patent does is give you the right to sue someone that you feel is infringing on your patent. the onus is on you to prove the infringement. if you are successful getting a patent granted and don't have the $$$ to defend your patent should someone choose to infringe, you just wasted your $$$ getting the patent.
3. oh, and there are 2 types of patents, design and utility patents. My comments above refer to utility patents. see Patents Guidance, Tools & Manuals for more details.

[M.D. Holloway]

I want one I want one! I don't know what it is but the fact that it is new, novel and the next cool thing means I want one!






Really, I want one!

[john70t]

A patent is basically only a right to sue.
Ask yourself first if it a small novelty thing with limited sales, or something that could revolutionize society.
A). If it is the former, you can do a preliminary search(this takes much time) through USPTOdotgov. Then file a provisional as a small entity, which will give you 1 year of limited protection to find a buyer and/or begin manufacturing it yourself.

If you want more expensive protection for a longer period of time, you can hire the patent office itself to do the search and file a non-provisional which lasts 30 years as long as the paperwork is correct and the incremental fees are paid.

B). If the idea is very signifigant, then you'll want to have it profesionally written and filed using the second method. Expect $5-50K in attorney costs, and hope it is a slam-dunk for sales to the general public.
Let's make this very clear: Most are not! Especially in a down economy.
Then you'll probably want to market it to existing companies with a legal team, because that's who is going to pay the $1-50M to defend it against other big companies with legal teams...unless you personally are a better designer AND patent attorney than all of their combined experience.

When filing an idea, the more artwork and variations, the better. Even if it is initially regected(which most are), you'll have an idea of what is unique and obvious and what is not.
If "X" is known and "Y" is known but "X"+"Y" is your idea, you better be prepared to be able to claim every conceivable variation of "X"+"Y" through different medium including prototypes.

You can choose to have it published in public articals by the USPTO, which hopefully someone with industry or venture capital may pick up. Or, you can choose to have it non-published, and have your attorney write "cease and desist" then file infrigment lawsuits as some squatters do.

[TechnoViking]

Ocean, you're killing me.....

[unclebilly]

[QUOTE=john70t;5523195]A patent is basically only a right to sue.


If you want more expensive protection for a longer period of time, you can hire the patent office itself to do the search and file a non-provisional which lasts 30 years as long as the paperwork is correct and the incremental fees are paid.

QUOTE]

In what country does a patent last 30 years?

They last 17 years in the US from the date of filing and 20 in Canada.

[john70t]

Thanks for the correction unclebilly.
Don't know why I had the 30 year number in the memory. Didn't they change this recently?

Questions and Answers - USPTO- USPTO
"For applications filed on or after June 8, 1995, utility and plant patents are granted for a term which begins with the date of the grant and usually ends 20 years from the date you first applied for the patent subject to the payment of appropriate maintenance fees.
Design patents last 14 years from the date you are granted the patent.
Note: Patents in force on June 8 and patents issued thereafter on applications filed prior to June 8, 1995 automatically have a term that is the greater of the twenty year term discussed above or seventeen years from the patent grant. "

[Zeke]

Inventions work for the inventor about 2% of the time. That's not because the item is not a good idea. It's because the market was not developed for the item.

I could go on and on about this, but I'll give the extremely abbreviated version.

Get the prototype done complete with packaging (no small feat).
Get a trademark.
Get a copyright on your design, especially the packaging.
Sell your idea for an advance on royalties.
Hope for the royalties while enjoying the advance.
Repeat process for new item.

If a patent is warranted, let the investor do it.

Inventors are not in the marketing and distribution business and make poor businessmen in most cases. I have been blinded by the lust to create and sell a lot of ideas. I learned the thesis the hard way. I found a book where someone had learned the thesis long before me and turned the tables to his favor. It's one of the best reads for an entrepreneur on the shelf (and there are 100's).

Amazon.com: Turn Your Idea or Invention into Millions (9781581151985): Don Kracke: Books

[unclebilly]

A registered trademark is like the Nike Swoosh or the Logo a business uses to represent itself. This prevents (should) chinese knockoffs of look alike goods.

A copywrite applies to literature or software etc.

Here's an example:

CocoCola - their logo is a registered trademark.

The recipe of their soda is a trade secret. Should they decide to publish it, they would have a copywrite on the recipe. This would prevent others from duplicating the document that comprises the recipe (a cook book if yoyu will). This would not prevent anybody from following the recipe to make Coke for personal use or profit.

If they applied for a patent on the recipe (the combination of ingredients to make soda and probably the method) and it was granted, this would have given them a monopoly on the product for 17 - 20 years.

Go to United States Patent and Trademark Office for further clarification on the difference between copywrites, trademarks, and patents.

[Zeke]

A copyright and a trademark can prevent anyone from marketing a product similar to yours in any kind of similar packaging and with any kind of similar advertising. These 2 items are enforceable more quickly and more cheaply.

By the time you pursue a patent infringement, the product will be either dead or the other guy will have his version on the market much more successfully than you. Patents have their place, for sure, but to move on the market quickly, you only need the simple protection.

You think the guy that sold the Pet Rock bothered with a patent? Patent a rock?

I don't know what the OP's inventions are, but he'll go nowhere unless he has a prototype in a box or package ready to sell at the trade show. I have taken a product from design, prototype, production, marketing and eventually to retail where I made a living with it.

I would not ever do this again. I would take the prototype to the biggest and best match to market the product en mass.

billy, you may have some patents, but what are you selling today? I'm not being critical, I'm interested in any success story and so is the OP. If you are getting royalties, you made my point in spades.

[peppy]

Scott my dad used this firm back in 1987.

Birch, Stewart, Kolasch & Birch, LLP - Intellectual Property Law