Creedmore Spoons

[BPCR]

Im not sure if I can post pics...or I might have to wait on someone to ok it.

[BPCR]

Hmm if I just upload them they go..

[BPCR]

A few more.





My lovely wife has pneumonia and I have to run and get her meds. Be back in a bit.
Thanks
Bob

[Jeff Higgins]

Very cool, Bob. I was mistaken on the years for the early slant breech rifles - they stopped building them in 1855. I see your 1859 issue rifle is indeed a vertical breech.

I love the Lawrence patent percussion cap feeder. I'm not sure they actually worked as planned, but it's a cool thing to still have on the earlier rifles. Lots of them were removed.

Boy, if you can still seat bullets two grooves out in a 2.6" case, that thing is going to hold some black powder. 100 to 110 grains will have to be the order of the day. Ouch... I've not only found recoil from such charges to be a bit much in my 14 pound match rifle, but fouling builds too quickly as well. It's definitely past the point of diminishing returns for a .45 caliber. Maybe you can seat them deeper with black powder and live with a bit more jump into the rifling. I like about a .100" jump in my black powder rifles.

My current lot of Swiss 1.5 fg likes minimal compression, so I'm only loading 85 grains of it. This makes it much easier to control the fouling, and recoil isn't so bad. Try seating deeper so all grooves are covered and you can load less powder. You might be surprised.

[Joeaksa]

Very nice Bob!

Thanks for the pics!

[BPCR]

Thanks, Joe!

[BPCR]

I found a couple of more pics. Hope you're interested...

[John Rogers]

I might have posted this one before, not sure but it is the 1000 yard muzzle loader I mage about 1 1/2 years ago. It uses 120 grains of Goex FFG, 560 grain paper patch 45 caliber bullet and 1:16 34 inch barrel. So far I have it shooting 1 inch groups at 300 yards and it only took me a year to get to this point and I did add a 6x Malcolm scope 4 months ago! I also have a Gibbs that shoots the same bullet/powder and is just about as accurate. The long range BP muzzle loading and cartridge shooting is way more of a challenge than most other rifles.

[mpeastend]

A lot of history surrounding the Creedmoor rifle. I live about 2 miles from the old range. Birthplace of the NRA's first range to develope marksmanship in the 1870's. The NRA bought 70 acres from the Creed family to start a range that hosted the prior version of the Palma trophy. Guns were developed to compete. The National Guard practiced there. Noise complaints caused it close. Then it became a large sprawling mental institution. Even today, the surrounding streets bear the names that harken back to a bygone era: Winchester Blvd, Musket St, Range St, Gettysburg St, Sabre St, etc.

[BPCR]

John, more pics please!

I have a Browning 1885 BPCR High Wall with the Malcom 6X. I plan on taking the rifle out to 1k, too.

The biggest problem I have when I start stretching out the yardage with these old howitzers is just how far your cheek moves above the stock. Cheek weld just about goes out the window.]

[Jim Bremner]

This post needs videos!

[BPCR]

Wish I could figure out how to do that on a forum.

AS I mentioned before I got a Dave Crossno .22lr insert for my 1885 and my Sharps as in it fits in both rifles and I took it to the range. WOW! With that Malcolm Scope on it the dialing back and forth between 100 and 50 yds was as simple as moving the flats on the elevation screw up or down. Each movement of the flat from one to the next is one MOA. Count 7 flats and the darned thing is dead center on the target. Count 7 flats back and its dead on at the previous distance. Adjusting for different ranges is as fast as you counting the flats and you;re back shooting. I can't wait until I start ranging out 200-300-500-600 + yards with simple dialing using the Browning 1885.

Bob

[John Rogers]

Here is a Gibbs copy I made using some lace wood and about 25 coats of clear lacquer. Note there is no cheek weld area as I have a half a dozen pieces of fairly solid foam of various thicknesses that sit over the top of the stock to raise my head up as that tang sight goes up. Same hardware and load info as the rifle in the earlier picture.

[John Rogers]

Opps forgot the picture.

[BPCR]

That's a nice looking rifle!

Bob

[BPCR]

Jeff,

Silly question here. Do you see many original Sharps shooting at matches?

Thanks
Bob

[John Rogers]

At our monthly muzzle loading matches about 25% of the rifles are original and usually SMOOTH BORES! We do have the national champion shoot with us and he beats most of us most of the time. We also have some who shoot original 69 caliber hunting pistols and they do well also. At the cartridge matches we have at Pala, most all the guns are new.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by BPCR

Jeff,

Silly question here. Do you see many original Sharps shooting at matches?

Thanks
Bob

Used to be most of the rifles were originals. The first reproductions, the "Farmingdale" guns from Wolfgang Droege, were anything but "match" rifles. The originals simply shot better. They do, however, have a different bore to chamber relationship than we use today. The bores are oversize and the chambers are undersize. Modern cast bullet wisdom decrees we shoot bullets .001" to .002" over groove diameter, which works great with both smokeless and black in either rifles or handguns. The original rifles, however, were set up to shoot bore (not groove) diameter bullets. When loading groove diameter bullets, they often will not even chamber - they are too big in diameter.

When competition heated up, and we needed rifles that could really shoot, we all started sending our rifles off to either John King of Kila, MT, or to Lee Shaver for re-barreling or just re-chambering. Badger was the preferred barrel, but Krieger, Douglas, and even Ron Jones gain twist barrels were used.

Once Shilo mover to Big Timber, then split in two to create C. Sharps Arms, it was off to the races - the modern rifles started to rule the roost. Lots of us started to regret having "butchered" our originals by re-barreling and whatnot. Oh well, we needed them to really shoot, and collectors be damned.

Funny, since this is a Porsche forum, I can't help but comment on the irony of it all. I'm an early car kind of guy, and I love to hot-rod them. I've been the Pac West "Chaptermeister" for the R Gruppe for a decade now. We are similarly accused of "butchering" original, and now very valuable cars. Eff 'em - we are having a lot of fun, and could care less about any "collector value". Same with these rifles - we would rather fix them up to "drive" better than sit in our smoking rooms, cigars and brandy in hand, admiring them.

[BPCR]

I think that's the same with everything. I swapped a friend an Savage over/under 20 Ga for a brought home Garand that the guy had gunsmith sporterize after WWII. He didn;t want it anymore because all he ever got when he went to the range was, "Blasphemy! A ruined Garand". I told him I wouldn't worry about what everyone else thinks. I got the rifle to the range and it shot better than any Garand I ever owned or shot. When I think more about it there was some guy that went to Europe to fight for his country. He carried that rifle for 2-3 years or more, slept with it, ate with it and it kept him alive. He brought it home and had it made into a deer rifle he thought so much of it.Who am I to question some war hero actions?

When I was a kid you could go to any gunshop and have your pick of the barrel with Lee Enfields for $20. The first thing we did was cut up the stock to make it into a light weight deer hunting rifle. Now there are Mosin Nagant collectors? Who in Gawds name wants one of those POS's? LOL!

Here's a couple of pics of that rifle:




Bob