Need some advice, military leadership related.

[The Gaijin]

Originally Posted by Hebrewhomeboy

I lead a small PT group in my company, basically it's soldiers in really great shape who want harder workouts than regular company PT can offer. We're kind of an "elite" physical fitness group, for lack of a better term. I'm very very proud of the effort these soldiers put forth in my workouts, as I know they aren't easy.


I can't just leave this alone. I feel the right thing to do is to do something to make this up to my soldiers, to make sure there's no question that I can push through anything to set the example for them and to show them I'm worthy of being their leader. I want to make it up to them somehow, I just don't really know what I can do. Maybe I can persuade my battalion commander to have a battalion-wide competition and I'll compete in that and win it, maybe I can go do a 5K or something, I just have to do something for my soldiers.

Are you guys following crossfit?

Otherwise, I am sure you will have many opportunties to lead and be valuable to your soldiers.. I am not so sure getting getting another competition organized - and one you a sure to excel at - it the best idea.

Get your self well. Stay fit. Lead by example, and other opportunities will come along to prove yourself in..

[Skytrooper]

Originally Posted by bell

it's training......
if you were in the field you would keep going when it would actually matter......
you know when to make a physical sacrifice........
when lives are on the line......
not for competition......

+1 this is exactly the correct answer. You set the wrong example by doing further damage to your body. You can save that attitude for the battlefield...were it is necessary. If you were one of my soldiers and you did more damage in a peacetime trainig environment, you can bet you ass that you would be receiving a counselling statement.

Move on, you did the best you could until your body gave out. Now focus instead upon what you need to do to strengthen yourself so it doesn't happen again.

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

A man has to know his limitations. Age is one of our limitations.

Leland, not all the AF is bisquits and gravy... In the CCT we started with calisthenics. Then we started our 7 to 10 mile run in boots. During the run we would stop and take rest breaks. So, imagine running in formation, stopping randomly and resting by doing more calisthenics, then starting over again. And don't forget the singing...

But seriously, what type of training are you doing? Could you be doing the exercises incorrectly? Do you have an underlying injury (mine was my knees which buckled and gave out)? Get checked out and take it a bit easy for a time. You might have just overdone it the first day being the best GI out there. In our training it was ALWAYS every man finished or no man finished. We stayed together and helped each other out.

I never faced combat but I am sure my initial training helped prepare me for it. People are always rather shocked at how fast I can go from quiet to aggressive when the need presents. Be careful with that. Not always what civilians expect.

And congrats on the stripes! Sergeants ARE the backbone of EVERY military organization!!! Anyone who thinks different is a blatent fool!

[crustychief]

Originally Posted by Groesbeck Hurricane

...edit.
And congrats on the stripes! Sergeants ARE the backbone of EVERY military organization!!! Anyone who thinks different is a blatent fool!

We didn't have a lot of sergeants in the Navy.

[Hard-Deck]

Originally Posted by crustychief

We didn't have a lot of sergeants in the Navy.

The Navy has sargents

[Erakad]

You need to sort out the difference between leadership and ego. They have crossover, but aren't the same thing.

Truly. Understand, it's not all about you. Leadership is about getting the most out of your soldiers, making them want to achieve more...getting them to know they can achieve the impossible. Although they would have respected you for competing and perhaps winning the competition, leadership wouldn't be the quantum factor. Leadership would be the commander, NCO, OIC, that built the team, trained the team, entered the team, and celebrated when the team won. The winning coach isn't always the best player, Eisenhower wasn't the best athlete, nor was Patton, Bradley, Powell, or any of the rest. Ask yourself, "what made them great leaders?"

[Hebrewhomeboy]

Originally Posted by mikester

+1

Do your officers ever explain their short comings to you?

They don't have to, we're the ones that correct them (joke)

Originally Posted by Kaliv

Definately something here. If you have to prove you are a good leader, then you're doing something wrong. I was enlisted for a few years and _thought_ I was a decent leader. But then I walked over the commissioned side, I saw it from a different view. You don't have to be the best at everything to be a leader.

Seems you're trying to lead by example, but sometimes there's just too much to be done to do that. And many times you have more important tasks as a leader than being the example. But you can always leader by character...and respect goes further that way. Showing good character in defeat many times makes you a stronger leader in the sight of others. Make smart decisions, not boastful ones.

Well, my superiors already apparently think I'm a great leader, I just always feel like I can do better, and I always want to improve, do the best, etc. And I think I usually do a great job of it, but this time, I wasn't prepared and I paid the price, and that pisses me off. You're right on the leader by character part though, exactly right.

Originally Posted by Snapper33

Homeboy,

Wow, I missed this thread last night.

As you know, I'm a SPECOPS Officer, I know team, physical fitness, winning and failure lessons.

It is a team event, be part of that team, congratulate the winner, stay with the team and keep training....TEAM....there's no "I" in team.

A leader always pushes himself, as you say.....during battle....

During training, in peacetime.....a leader stays smart enough to not hurt himself in training and miss the battle......

If you are still kicking your arse over this, go find an SF Soldier or Ranger and ask him how he deals with his failures and physical injuries. Every one of them that I know would be thinking of the future for their team right now and not themselves. Walk the talk.

Congratulations on your new wife and condolences on your mother.

Snapper Out.

Thanks Snapper. It's a new day and I'm fine now, it was just getting to me last night. I know I did the right thing by not pushing myself into further injury, and I know that in a situation where it would really matter, I would never quit for any reason. I can definitely learn from this, also from the team aspect, by altering our PT regimen to further strengthen and focus on critical muscles, such as the lower back, which must be kept strong. Beyond making me a physically strong leader, that would make the team physically stronger, more capable, and probably healthier, from a back perspective. Thank you.

Originally Posted by DanielDudley

I have a friend who was a Ranger. He saved the life of his spotter, by carrying him out of action. In the process he destroyed his knees.

That would be a good reason to push on past the pain. As we get older, we have to learn our limits many times. The basic rule is that if you don't take care of yourself, you won't be able to take care of others.

You did the right thing. In other circumstances, you would also do the right thing.

Looking forward to seeing your new 911 when the time is right. I seem to recall the old one was a White Coupe.

You're exactly right, I just had to remind myself over and over that it was a silly little competition, it's not important. Hell, as a leader I should avoid participation in small-level things like so my soldiers can win instead. My 911 was a silver targa, but my next one will definitely be a coupe. Those lines just can't be beat!

Originally Posted by futuresoptions

You must build up your strengths to overcome your weakness.... mentally beating yourself up over this is just adding another weakness...

Another very good point. I don't know why something so small upset me as much as it did, maybe because, even though it was a tiny "failure", I just simply don't take failure well at all, I hate it, even though I know it's natural.

[Hebrewhomeboy]

Originally Posted by The Gaijin

Are you guys following crossfit?

Otherwise, I am sure you will have many opportunties to lead and be valuable to your soldiers.. I am not so sure getting getting another competition organized - and one you a sure to excel at - it the best idea.

Get your self well. Stay fit. Lead by example, and other opportunities will come along to prove yourself in..

I'm a big fan of crossfit, and I designed our PT program with it in mind. I have some limitations, as we don't have the equipment for a dozen guys to do certain exercises at the same time, but we make do. I had avoided adding deadlifts, because I was concerned that it may be too difficult to train a dozen guys to have perfect form, but now I realize how important they are and that I need to add them in, even light deadlifts. Gotta strengthen that lower back!

Originally Posted by Groesbeck Hurricane

A man has to know his limitations. Age is one of our limitations.

Leland, not all the AF is bisquits and gravy... In the CCT we started with calisthenics. Then we started our 7 to 10 mile run in boots. During the run we would stop and take rest breaks. So, imagine running in formation, stopping randomly and resting by doing more calisthenics, then starting over again. And don't forget the singing...

But seriously, what type of training are you doing? Could you be doing the exercises incorrectly? Do you have an underlying injury (mine was my knees which buckled and gave out)? Get checked out and take it a bit easy for a time. You might have just overdone it the first day being the best GI out there. In our training it was ALWAYS every man finished or no man finished. We stayed together and helped each other out.

I never faced combat but I am sure my initial training helped prepare me for it. People are always rather shocked at how fast I can go from quiet to aggressive when the need presents. Be careful with that. Not always what civilians expect.

And congrats on the stripes! Sergeants ARE the backbone of EVERY military organization!!! Anyone who thinks different is a blatent fool!

Don't remind me that I'm not 22 anymore! The problem was that I had a small muscle injury from years ago (that stemmed from "ego lifting", i.e., lifting a ton of weight because I could, without warming up, stretching, or being super-attentive to my form) that I took care of, and it healed, and I learned never to lift like that again, and the very first event in our little competition aggravated it, because I had let my lower back get weak, I hadn't kept my fitness up in that area. Thanks! Sergeants are where it's at, I absolutely love being one! I will get my commission and become an officer one day, for the sake of a better ($$) retirement, but I will always miss being a sergeant.

Originally Posted by Erakad

Truly. Understand, it's not all about you. Leadership is about getting the most out of your soldiers, making them want to achieve more...getting them to know they can achieve the impossible. Although they would have respected you for competing and perhaps winning the competition, leadership wouldn't be the quantum factor. Leadership would be the commander, NCO, OIC, that built the team, trained the team, entered the team, and celebrated when the team won. The winning coach isn't always the best player, Eisenhower wasn't the best athlete, nor was Patton, Bradley, Powell, or any of the rest. Ask yourself, "what made them great leaders?"

That's very true. Now I realize, instead of ME winning the competition to show that I can lead by example, it would be better for me to train my soldiers as best as I can to make sure THEY win. I'm young, I still have plenty to learn. This is just one step backward, two steps forward for me


And I slept on it, and I feel fine about it today. My back still hurts, and I'd hate to have actually injured it by pushing on. My superiors have told me I'm a good leader, I know my soldiers look up to me, so me getting frustrated over something as trivial as this is the wrong thing to do, as a leader, especially when no one but me is even remotely bothered by it. I'm going to alter our PT regimen slightly to make sure I safely strengthen everyone's spinal erectors more. It's such an important muscle group, especially in the military. I think, as a leader, the absolute best thing I can do for this is to take it in stride, learn from it, and design and implement a plan to prevent it from happening again.



Thanks again for the advice, guys!

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

Actually, the Navy has a few Sergeants running around, yall call them Marines!!!! ;-)




Yep, should have said NCOs!


Of course you know about the dogs and the Air Force and the Marines and the Navy so I'll just cut and run for cover now.

[Mark Howard]

Speaking from the perspective of a former Platoon Leader, Company, and Battalion Commander, being humble is a valuable characteristic of a leader. Like you, I had to be the best at everything. I found, after some maturing, that my soldiers actually resented me for it. Being first at everything did not make me a better leader or make my soldiers want to follow me any more than they would have otherwise. In fact, I found that as I showed my flaws, my soldiers were more inclined to respect me as their leader. "Letting" them beat you on the PT Test gives them bragging rights and confidence...."I beat the Old Man" and such. You will find that your soldiers don't respect you for what you can beat them at, but what you have to offer them: leadership, counseling, mentoring and friendship (yes, I said friendship).

I think what you are striving for is what I always demanded from my units, Continuous Improvement. You have a responsibility to always leave an organization better than you found it. Setting the proper tone, culture and climate is the responsibility of a leader. Your self development is also a major factor. Don't set your goals too high or you will be disappointed...reward success...conduct AARs even for the small missions.

If you have not seen it, I recommend renting The Guardian (Kevin Costner). Lame movie but some good lessons in being humble.

I also recommend reading cover to cover FM 6-22. Live by it and the Army Values and you won't care who is first on the PT track.

Just my $.02 from someone who has been there...

[holtjv]

Couple things from a now-soft Jarhead:

1) I fell off the obstacle course one time and was standing tall afterward. His comment? "Yeah, I'll bet you woulda hung on if you had been 100' up." So same lesson someone else mentioned--if bad guys were ahead you would have kept running.

2) Time to be a dick, sorry: If you persist in the self flagellation to your troops, peers, officers, you're going to look like you're soliciting their sympathy. And that gets old real fast.

Jack