why are they making the wtc firefighters black when they were not?

Planter91C2 · 01-16-2002, 06:29 AM

i am talking about the memorial. there were three firefighters raising a flag, a picture was taken and it became famous. now a sculpture is being made and they are switching two of the guys to black. if i was one of the firefighters booted out of the picture i would be pretty mad.

is this affirmative action at work?

oh, it's tied to the Clintons...
http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2002/1/15/93747

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?flgraise&1

what are your thoughts on this?

it seems really screwed up to me.

prattrc · prattrc's Garage

This controversy could have easily been avoided by creating an original work, rather than copying the photo. It's not unreasonable to create a multi-ethnic tribute, since all races died at the WTC, but using "PC white out" on an existing and widely circulated photograph is offensive to the men who stood there and raised that flag. It would be if they were white, black, Asian, Latino, or freaking purple with green spots.

In their effort (to raise the flag at the site), those men became the embodiment of patriotism and a renewed American idealism. To render them anonymous, to remove the men themselves is a horrific injustice. They created that image, that symbol. The sculpture artist is plagarizing their work.

All Americans should feel patriotic when they see that picture, regardless of race.

Planter91C2 · 01-16-2002, 12:10 PM

wow, things have gotten crazier than i thought. now they are taking down a picture of George Washington to replace it with a "picture of a black person or woman" and calling George Washington "an old white guy"

is mount rushmore next?

when will this madness end?

http://foxnews.com/story/0,2933,43143,00.html

Saffs · 01-16-2002, 12:50 PM

Whoever the Firefighters were who were depicted in that picture, should be in the statue. It's enormously disrespectful to them to not be included in the statue, quite unforgivable.
I've no problem with people taking down pictures and putting more relevant ones up - well, relevant to the current times and not hundreds of years ago, that is. Maybe the picture of the Firefighters....

RoninLB · 01-16-2002, 08:33 PM

If you support the N.Y.C. Fire Dept. and want to help stop the politicans from trying to change history please vote. http://www.petitiononline.com/flgraise/

p0r2chbyIII · 01-17-2002, 09:18 AM

Planter...

Sounds like YOU have a problem with black people in general... would your shorts be so tight if an asian or hispanic were included.

RoninLB · 01-17-2002, 09:48 AM

A memorial to all groups would be fitting. No acknowledgements to the many Asians was even considered. FDNY politicans are concerned with"Political Correctness". The photograph is a document and captures an exact moment in history, period.

Planter91C2 · 01-17-2002, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by p0r2chbyIII
Planter...

Sounds like YOU have a problem with black people in general... would your shorts be so tight if an asian or hispanic were included.

ohhh, p0r2chby coming back to start trouble huh? i knew you would be back

your comments are ridiculous, i merely do not understand what happened in our society to cause such things to happen.

i think that the mere idea of altering the firefighters memorial statue to appease a racial group is mind-boggling.

p.s. isn't it funny that me simply questioning this odd situation makes you feel that i am bigoted? that is an example of the problems in society today.

p.s.s. p0r2chby, i know you are black because i saw a picture shaun once posted of you.

what are your true feelings on this?

p0r2chbyIII · 01-17-2002, 10:37 AM

RoninLB, I agree...

The photo is a true life moment in history and should never be altered to fit any demographic criteria. In my opinion, the memorial should refelect the wide range of society that has endured both loss and demonstrated heroism regardless of race or gender.

RoninLB · 01-17-2002, 10:49 AM

Then you feel a different memorial is fitting. I don't like the idea of altering history for public relations. They forgot to include females. Can't wait to hear from them. LOL

prattrc · prattrc's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by p0r2chbyIII
Planter...

Sounds like YOU have a problem with black people in general... would your shorts be so tight if an asian or hispanic were included.

Uh, I realize everbody's playin' nice, but one of the firefighters in the sculpture is hispanic.

Nabeel · 01-18-2002, 07:38 PM

Altering the the thing to insert two minorities is the stupidest thing ever....I'm a minority myself, but I still don't agree. It's like a slap in the face to the brave men who were originally in the picture and were taken out.

While they are at it, why don't they insert women, hispanics, asians, homosexuals, muslims, catholics, jews, hindus, buddhists, sikhs, arabs, children, quakers, nativve americans, eskimos....

This is ridiculous.

RoninLB · 01-18-2002, 08:13 PM

Nabeel...This is a true story. Three firemen from Ladder Co 118, Joey Agnello, Vernon Cherry, and Peter Vega ate together, slept together, and died together at Ground Zero while trying to rescue victims. Their remains were just recovered about 10 days ago. They were Black, Hispanic, and White. FDNY politicans did not want to build a memorial to them. Why?? These men died. Why are they not important??? Would some one please answer this.

RoninLB · 01-20-2002, 02:22 PM

to my understanding the politicans agreed not to make the PC statue based on the flag rasing. Over 40,000 signed the petition, and are still signing. Not sure if/what statue they will build

Nabeel · 01-26-2002, 09:27 PM

RoninLB,

The biggest mistake they made is trying to base the memorial on the photograph. I wholeheartedly support representing minorities in a memorial. I would actually be insulted if minorities were not represented in a event they played an important role in.

However, the removal of two people and he insertion of two minorities is not historically or ethically correct. The right thing to do would be to start from the beginning and design a new memorial that would better represent the people who gave their lives. Just my .02

RoninLB · 01-26-2002, 10:06 PM

The 3 guys from Ladder 118 would be meaningful.

Nabeel · 01-27-2002, 04:09 PM

I agree, ladder 118 would be an excellent place to start if they were to design a new memorial.

gixer02 · 01-30-2002, 08:02 PM

I could go a year not seeing the pic and I will still see it vividly in my mind. The statue is of that pic and should not be altered for what I call "political reasons". Show those men some respect and keep it like the pic. Just my 2 cents. R.I.P. to all of those lost...

Pat

RoninLB · 01-31-2002, 04:26 AM

Just got a notice this morning that 125,000 signitures have been collected and NY politicans are scrapping plans to alter flag raising picture for a politically correct memorial. Signitures are still being collected. Rumor has it that some other politically correct device is in the works.

01-31-2002, 06:23 AM

It's a symbolic picture from a symbolic moment. If that moment in life is going to be reproduced - no matter in what way - it should show things exactly as they were.

It reminds me of the famous picture with an east German border soldier in east Berlin who jumps the barbed wire into west Berlin when they were building the wall. A symbolic moment caught on film. If you change that in any way it'll loose it's magic. Same goes for the flag raising.

Although as a European it's actually none of my business I still signed the protest homepage you posted a link for earlier.