new econo box?

[Tim Hancock]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

They're the type that like a new car every 2-3 years or so (even though they can't afford it). Think of it this way though - if the first Hyundai was crap, would they have bought two more?

Kind of reminds me of my parents.... My dad "looks" at BMW's every go around but eventually settles for another Honda Accord every time. They have bought at least 5 new Honda Accords over the years. Mom gets the new one and dad uses her old one for a daily driver. His current one has 375,000 miles and is about to be retired. Mom's black V6 Accord still looks brand new and has about 140k on it.

[JTO]

I just got rid of the FJ Cruiser and got a Mazda 3 hatchback. Nice handling car with decent power. Very solid. The lease they have going on is great. We got a well equiped S with six speed for $225 per month, nothing out of pocket.

Troy

I was in the same boat last month. I had 2007 civic ex coupe that I used for work. We had a baby and figured that another 4 door in the family wouldn't hurt.
I went with a mazda3 5 door in white. 2011 Grand touring with Bluetooth and Bose. Paid 21k for the car.
I can't say enough good things about it. It's the same chassis as an escort and a volvo.
I can say that my Honda had more leg to seat room but Mazda is easier to get on and out of. Also I'm a chef and spend alot of time at farmers markets.
Civic had better millard though. Also it made power at higher rmps than Mazda. 1.8 compared to 2.5.
Mazda seems to have a stiffer body that Honda.
That's my experience between the 2. Good luck!

[audiman08]

I kind of dig the new Suzuki Kazashi...great reviews, you can get an AWD loaded version for about what most entry-level European cars cost, it looks great, and Japanese cars have great reliability ratings.

[kaisen]

I'm not with you on the Kizashi, Audiman
Not a cohesive product, no real support
Maybe next generation

[audiman08]

Originally Posted by kaisen

I'm not with you on the Kizashi, Audiman
Not a cohesive product, no real support
Maybe next generation

I think Suzuki is far under-rated, probably because they are small in the U.S., but maybe you are right, the next generation will gain some fame...

[onewhippedpuppy]

I like the Kizashi styling, but weren't several Suzuki products dead last in the JD Power reliability ratings? When you sell new cars for $12k, you have to sacrifice somewhere.

[audiman08]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

I like the Kizashi styling, but weren't several Suzuki products dead last in the JD Power reliability ratings? When you sell new cars for $12k, you have to sacrifice somewhere.

Keep in mind, the Kazashi is Suzuki's flagship...it's not like buying a Suzuki Swift. Also, many U.S. auto publications (like Consumer Reports) are heavily biased to begin with...when is the last time you saw a sizable number of European cars positively reviewed by Consumer Reports?

[kaisen]

The Kizashi was a bit of an abortion, literally. When the Kizashi was on the drawing board, GM had control of Suzuki. They originally planned to use GM's Epsilon platform. About a third of the way through, GM pulled back but still helped Suzuki quickly execute their own half-baked (IMHO) platform. GM also pulled their planned high-feature V6 (3.6DI) so the Suzuki launched with only a mediocre (by today's high standards) 4 cylinder. By the time the Kizashi hit our shores, Volkswagen was Suzuki's steward.

Suzuki has had horrible badge-engineered cars and trucks for quite a while. So their dealer network is anemic, with very few stand alone stores. They are second and third franchises, like red headed step children. The dealers are just not equipped to give the level of service and support that the Kizashi's competitors can deliver.

Suzuki is worse off than Hyundai was in the early 90's.

The Kizashi is not a bad product. It's a solid effort and a decent car. But a decent car in a field of fabulous cars doesn't cut it.

Maybe next time.

[audiman08]

Originally Posted by kaisen

The Kizashi was a bit of an abortion, literally. When the Kizashi was on the drawing board, GM had control of Suzuki. They originally planned to use GM's Epsilon platform. About a third of the way through, GM pulled back but still helped Suzuki quickly execute their own half-baked (IMHO) platform. GM also pulled their planned high-feature V6 (3.6DI) so the Suzuki launched with only a mediocre (by today's high standards) 4 cylinder. By the time the Kizashi hit our shores, Volkswagen was Suzuki's steward.

Suzuki has had horrible badge-engineered cars and trucks for quite a while. So their dealer network is anemic, with very few stand alone stores. They are second and third franchises, like red headed step children. The dealers are just not equipped to give the level of service and support that the Kizashi's competitors can deliver.

Suzuki is worse off than Hyundai was in the early 90's.

The Kizashi is not a bad product. It's a solid effort and a decent car. But a decent car in a field of fabulous cars doesn't cut it.

Maybe next time.

Well I agree with you on a lot of that (especially dealer support), I still think it's Suzuki's best effort to date. If they had used GM's engine, people would accuse them of being like Saab (using indigenous bodies with GM engines). I guess it's hard to win when you are small...

[gtc]

Honda CR-Z. If it's anything like the old Insight, it will be a lot of fun (for an econobox).

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by audiman08

I still think it's Suzuki's best effort to date....

I agree completely. Although they had a lot of success with the Vitara / Grand Vitara. It's their best CAR without a doubt. What was the Suzuki version of the Geo Metro?

[racer]

I use a 2005.5 Jetta as my daily driver. For its intended purpose, its a fine car. Nealy 92K miles on it. 2.5l 5 cylinder. I get about 28mpg per tank (mostly highway commute, rated at 22/30). So far the car has needed rear brakes (at 80K miles) and oil/filter changes every 10K miles.

The new Jetta for 2011 is a bit larger a car, and as mentioned, has been de-contented somewhat (torsion beam rear axle, rear drum brakes vs the old cars multilink rear and discs) but looks nice enough. I'd avoid the new base motor (2.0L 4 cylinder with 115hp). The 2011 GOLF is also restyled, but IIRC, does NOT have the torsion beam axle/drum brakes and comes standard with the 2.5l 170hp motor.

I didn't see a price point in the OP.. but it sounds like you are talking Sub $20K?

[onewhippedpuppy]

Drum brakes on a modern German car.......seriously? It's not the first time I've read it, but I still can't believe it.

[Drisump]

Originally Posted by racer

I use a 2005.5 Jetta as my daily driver. For its intended purpose, its a fine car. Nealy 92K miles on it. 2.5l 5 cylinder. I get about 28mpg per tank (mostly highway commute, rated at 22/30). So far the car has needed rear brakes (at 80K miles) and oil/filter changes every 10K miles.

The new Jetta for 2011 is a bit larger a car, and as mentioned, has been de-contented somewhat (torsion beam rear axle, rear drum brakes vs the old cars multilink rear and discs) but looks nice enough. I'd avoid the new base motor (2.0L 4 cylinder with 115hp). The 2011 GOLF is also restyled, but IIRC, does NOT have the torsion beam axle/drum brakes and comes standard with the 2.5l 170hp motor.

I didn't see a price point in the OP.. but it sounds like you are talking Sub $20K?

Yeah, probably that's about the number all right, however bear in mind that even though the CDN$ is pretty much par with the US$, the car dealers by and large, ask (and presumably get) 20% more....and you pay taxes on that additional 20%. Some dealers do not deal either, VW and Suburu are especially known for this. Most of the 0% financing options makes me laugh because if you pay cash, you get the car for much less, so all you're doing is pre-paying the interest....no surprise there. Everyone has given me much food for thought, in fact, I'm stuffed to bursting, ya gotta love this site. Historically, I hold onto cars for an awful long time, so the process takes a while to run it's course. This car will start out life doing about 6000 miles per year, and that will probably increase as the amount of people that currently need moving around (kid, now in Univ.) diminishes. We have a Land Cruiser to move kids, friends of kids, dogs, ski equipment, etc. but over time that will be used less as the spacial requirements lessen . Unfortunately in the selection process, I have three (frequently opposing) issues, drive quality, economy, and "perceived" reliability. "Perceived", meaning that you don't really know how reliable a car is going to be over the long haul, because the models and components in these models change frequently (ie. is a new Civic going to prove to be as reliable as one built 10 years ago.....ten years from now?)It's interesting that some elements of the Jetta seem to be going the other direction (from most car manufacturers who are in a race to create ever more complex cars even in the econo-box space) in simplifying construction. So many of you have brought forth makes and models that I hadn't considered, but I will now, Thanks.