Spoons For Real Men

[enzo1]

BlueSky: I agree! this gun is about 4-5 yrs old, may be 1 of the 1st, when they went back to the internal extractor ... forum says they went through 5 different ones

[ODDJOB UNO]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I'll give you the "crappy little sights" and loose slides, but none of the rest makes any difference. My point is, that too many guns these days are built far too tight, sacrificing reliability for mechanical accuracy. They add all of the extended safeties, ambidexterous safeties, extended mag and slide releases, way too sharp checkering, beavertails and bobbed hammers, etc. It all drives the cost up, and makes the gun less suitable as a carry piece. Great "range guns", which is fine, but not so great "usin' guns".

Henry's Gold Cup above is a great example of a fine "usin' gun", as is tab's old Colt in the first post. It achieves pretty darn impressive accuracy without resorting to an overly tight fit, and functions just fine without all the foofaraw so common on these guns today. There are tricks to making these guns shoot, beyond scrunching the slide down so tight on the frame and lapping the barrel bushing to be damn near a press fit on the end of the barrel. These are amateur hack approaches. These amateur hacks then festoon these guns with every piece of bling the big kids use in the "practical" matches so they can attract the unwary buyer.

Henry's example above shows what really counts. That, and it demonstrates the old adage that "it's the Indian, not the arrow". Too many guys think they can "buy" that kind of skill. They have convinced themselves they can't shoot like that because they need a "better" gun. And there is no shortage of folks willing to sell them one...

i DITTO THIS! wayyyy too many HOT ROD SPOONS FAIL! and my smithy has seen them all and worked on all of them. its amazing how much dough gets dumped into these.


a loose .45 is reliable. a tight .45 is an ABORTION GOING TO HAPPEN!



all of my springfields/HK's get shot 200 times out of the box and then get a trigger job if needed or night sites if needed. or they get a simple ass brass dot front sight. nothing to admire but all BIZZNESS every single stinking time.


was just in the spoon shop the other day looking at .45's(like i need another WTF?) and the prices were beyond WTFWYT?


give me a break. it aint worth POO if it dont go bang each and every time all the time every single stinking day for the rest of yer LIFE!



nelson ford (thegunsmith.com) could write a BOOK with all his stories on FTF/FTE , monkeyfeeking 1/2 azzd midnight spoon smithing, "but my buddy said it would work", my buddy has one", "it works fine on my buddies", " i read an article", and on and on.


real simple to figure out. if FTF then try different ammo.

FTE............try different ammo.



shoot it 200 times and THEN and ONLY THEN take it to a QUALIFIED(which aint cheap) and have him sort it out CORRECTLY with the ammo that grouped BEST!



but then im kind of prejudiced...................btwn my HK P9S .45 combat and my HK compact tactical .45...............i have NEVER HAD A FTF nor FTE! they just EAT ANYTHING AND EVERYTHANG!



i always get a kick at matches when some clown buys a brand new STI or some other mega buck HOT ROD RACE SPOON and the damn thing wont work and the ensuent TEMPER TANTRUM by a grown adult male!

[tabs]

I will see your 05 with my 104 yr old 05 beauty and raise you with my 11 that was made in 14, which makes it 96 yrs old.

[ODDJOB UNO]

Originally Posted by tabs

I will see your 05 with my 104 yr old 05 beauty and raise you with my 11 that was made in 14, which makes it 96 yrs old.

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm YUMMY!

[tabs]

Originally Posted by fred cook

All Colts, some .22s, some .38s, some 357s and one .38 Super!

From 12 O clock..A Trooper, A Marshall/Trooper?, A prewar Officers Mdl, A 2nd mdl Match tgt woodsman, A C Commander, a pre war Officers Mdl, a post war Officers Model Special or maybe 357 Mag/early Trooper. In the center is a Dick Spl and a Police Positive/ Pocket Positive?

[Eric Coffey]

Originally Posted by BlueSkyJaunte

This doesn't change/help the fact that Kimber is letting a lot of lemons out of the shop these days.

That's too bad. I've owned 3 kimbers total (sold two, still have one). They were all series-1 models and were (are) excellent guns with no issues. The one I kept should be the one with the most potential issues (4" bull bbl, reverse plug, officer frame, etc.), and it's been the best 1911 I've owned.

[UconnTim97]

The Glock 17 is all the spoon needed for real men.

When the budget permits I think I would seriously look into getting a nice 1911 to add to the collection, they sure are purdy.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Originally Posted by Eric Coffey

That's too bad. I've owned 3 kimbers total (sold two, still have one). They were all series-1 models and were (are) excellent guns with no issues. The one I kept should be the one with the most potential issues (4" bull bbl, reverse plug, officer frame, etc.), and it's been the best 1911 I've owned.

The "series I" guns (i.e., not labeled "Series II") are in pretty high demand these days. Everyone talks about getting their hands on a "Clackamas".

I have spoken with several former Series II owners who have sworn off Kimber as a result. It's too bad, too. They're an American company based in Yonkers, NY, and some of their offerings are quite attractive from an aesthetic and design standpoint.

The only Kimber product I still own is a .22LR conversion slide. Ran like crap on my Custom II but is flawless on my Springfield. Go figure.

[enzo1]

My buddy insists: " all my Kimber's have wilson combat clips., throw the Kimber 1 away" all 4 of theirs shoot fine.... Sunday , we are going to test this and I will report back to this thread... even though this is a slight highjack I think it's important, if I can't get to the bottom of this then u can draw your own conclusion

[fred cook]

Tabs,

You are close! Starting from top right:

6" nickel Trooper MkIII .357 w/Herrett grips
4" blue Trooper MkIII .357 w/Colt grips
6" Officers Model Target .22 w/custom target grips
Woodsman Match Target .22 2nd model w/Lew Sanderson grips
.38 Super Commander (1950) w/ivory grips
6" Officer Model Target .38 w/carved grips
.357 Model (Pre Trooper) w/Colt grips

in center:

Detective Special .38 w/Colt grips
Lawman MkIII .357, nickel w/Colt grips

[enzo1]

ODDJOB UNO- mine is very tight!

[Jim Bremner]

Next year the 1911 turns 100 years old.

Next year I turn 45 years old.

I WILL be buying a NICE 1911 in 45acp.


My eldest son managed to get my 1911A1 to jam. It's jamb 3 times, the first two had been before that I knew that a 1911 needed to be lubed! They 3rd time that it jambed he manage to chamber a 45 acp round 3/4s of the way in the breach.......... BACKWARDS!




I'm pretty sure that he loaded the mag with THAT round in backwards, he swares not.

This pistol has fired enough 230g rounds that I will be rebarreling it soon.

[Jeff Higgins]

How many is "enough"? I mentioned Seyfreid earlier; in his competitive days, he claimed over 100,000 rounds per year through his two guns between daily practice and competition. He went on for years like that, never rebarreling either gun. Most of us don't shoot that much.

[MotoSook]

Didn't the 1911 already turn 100 yrs old?

[RacerX1166]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

How many is "enough"? I mentioned Seyfreid earlier; in his competitive days, he claimed over 100,000 rounds per year through his two guns between daily practice and competition. He went on for years like that, never rebarreling either gun. Most of us don't shoot that much.

Depends on whether we're talking jacketed or not. I've put 30k+ rounds through my original 'go to' single stack and haven't noticed any degradation in accuracy or velocity. A drop in velocity (for any given known load) would indicate worn lands in the barrel.

My Limited gun, on the other hand, (.40 S&W double stack) digested mostly jacketed rounds due to the ungodly amount of smoke that lead bullets create in that caliber. That gun had about 40k rounds through it when I sold it and the barrel was starting to lose velocity. It still wasn't anywhere near where I'd consider re barreling.

That being said, I've seen guys need to put new barrels in their guns at 10k rounds. Repeated rapid fire, without allowing the gun to cool down, will destroy a barrel in a heartbeat. My open gun got so darned hot that I'd stick it in a cooler while loading mags and resetting targets.

Gratuitous spoon photo attached...and, no, I wouldn't try to CCW that.

[Jeff Higgins]

Those guns represent everyhting that went so drastically wrong with "practical" pistol competition. Of course you would never carry a gun like that. Not very "practical", are they?

Same thing happened in "hunter" silhouette years ago. "Chin guns", with scopes mounted a foot above the bore, all kinds of bizzare barrel contours forcing weight out to the muzzle, and all that crap. Same mentality. Another ruined shooting game that turned into an arms race by the gamesmen. Here is Tubb's "hunting rifle":

[RacerX1166]

I wholeheartedly concur that the 'arms race' in IPSC/USPSA has gotten to where, as you said, the guns aren't practical at all. Anyone who holds on to the belief that USPSA competition is practical is seriously deluding himself.

It helps to think of it this way: USPSA (particularly Open class) is kind of like F1. It's the pinnacle of high power and speed target shooting. You would no more consider carrying an open gun, such as the above, for defense than you would drive an F1 car down to Wal-Mart for a pack of toilet paper.

But I can tell you that shooting an open gun in a match is a TON of fun for a skilled shooter, just as I'm sure an F1 car is a blast to drive for a skilled driver.

If you want a truer 'practical' type of shooting, try IDPA (although that's gotten into a bit of political equipment shenanigans) or NTI.

[Jeff Higgins]

I definitely see your point, and I really like the racing analogy. I guess every fledgling sport goes through these kinds of growing pains before the rules stabilize. "Practical" pistol now has some truly "practical" classes, for production guns, that hopefully will not get out of control. I guess it was a bit optimistic for Cooper and the boys to think their "practical" game would remain so, as loosely written as their early rules were. Within a small, dedicated crowd like that, it's easy when every knows what everyone else means. It was when the sport exploded in the late '80's that the new guys came in and noticed "the rules don't say you can't______" Come to think of it, one of the things we all love about Porsche is that they excell at such "rules interpretations".

This same thing is being fought almost match by match in my favorite shooting game, black powder cartridge rifle long range (and silhouette). The gamesmen are invading, saying "it doesn't say you can't_____". Fortunately, the other games were just starting to go through their growing pains when our rules were written. We have "spirit of the game" at "match director's discretion". That pretty much shuts them down, but I've seen some hellacious arguments, and almost fist fights over what constitutes "spirit of the game" and what can be considered "period correct".

Anyway, bringing my part of this discussion full circle, back to your guns. Wonderful stuff and great good fun to shoot, I'm sure. We can all agree they are built to a purpose, and are completely impractical for carry. Yet, look at them piece by piece, feature by feature. How many "race gun" components found on those have made their way to carry pieces? When looked at as a whole, on your guns, it's obvious the whole package adds up to a "range gun", a competition gun only. It's a lot more subtle when there are only a few of those race gun parts on a carry pistol, but they render them dangerous and unusable for their intended purpose. It's my opinion that the 1911 craze has had a lot of guys spending a lot of money on stuff that they don't need or cannot use, simply because they have been sold a bill of goods by the gunsmiths and their accomplices at the gun magazines.

[tabs]

Ohhh Jeffy you should see what I am now after...

[audiman08]

Originally Posted by fred cook

All Colts, some .22s, some .38s, some 357s and one .38 Super!

Nice collection, I really like Colts...the Python was probably the greatest revolver.