Thoughts on Autogyros?

[audiman08]

My father-in-law has talked for a long time about building a homebuilt aircraft. He's interested in the FAA Sport Pilot License. I suggested he look into building an autogyro, since he has some land and they have a short take-off roll. There's a CFI in Arkansas that instructs in autogyros. After mentioning the gyros (over airplanes) he seemed a little unsure, I don't think he feels they're safe. I reassured him that they are fairly safe. I have a few hours in fixed wing, but have had to put off obtaining my PPL for some time. I'd love to think I could get my SPL with him and borrow his autogyro now and then. Has anyone had experience with these? They seem safe, with their ability to autorotate, right? What's the best kit? Tractor over pusher?

Some of the trainers in Arkansas:




The kit I suggested:

[RPKESQ]

Autogyros are not quite as safe as fixed wing aircraft for various reasons:

They in pusher configuration do not have as much "structure" in front or to the sides to absorb impact.

They do not have as simple of a "wing" structure, many more points of failure and increased stress.

They can auto rotate, but when the disc is unloaded they often have tail strikes and self destruct.

But flown properly and maintained well, they do offer some amazingly capable flight experiences.

[crustychief]

I do not have any full scale experience, just RC. They used them in New York to deliver mail from building top to building top. There is a lot more maintenance involved than a fixed wing aircraft and you could probably get close to the same STOL ( except the landing ) with a good ultralight.

[audiman08]

That's a cool little machine

[audiman08]

Found one on Ebay:


gyrocopter gyroplane helicopter 447 commander - eBay (item 150533996073 end time Dec-20-10 20:16:46 PST)

These open-cockpit flimsy ones are scary looking, but cheap...the old cost over safety tradeoff I guess.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by RPKESQ

Autogyros are not quite as safe as fixed wing aircraft for various reasons:

They in pusher configuration do not have as much "structure" in front or to the sides to absorb impact.

They do not have as simple of a "wing" structure, many more points of failure and increased stress.

They can auto rotate, but when the disc is unloaded they often have tail strikes and self destruct.

But flown properly and maintained well, they do offer some amazingly capable flight experiences.

Pretty much spot on, except the tail strike part...I'd would be a lot more worried about hitting the main rotor in an auto.

Key to any autogyro is energy management, just like a helo. Great thing about these machines is the rotor head usually, design dependent, has excellent energy storage properties, a key to a successful auto.

In helo school in the Navy, we would routinely practice power-off autos in our Bell Jet Rangers...roll the throttle to idle and keep it there all the way through to landing.

As RPKESQ alluded too, it is all about managing the flight. I'd love to fly one.

[onlycafe]

saw one like this fly at the rhinebeck aerodrome twenty five years agp.




there is one in "international house" piloted by w.c. fields, and one at the tail end of "it happened one night".

Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome | America's Original Living Museum of Antique Airplanes! - Welcome!

[sammyg2]

Often referred to as "Darwin birds".

Iffn you go up in one I call dibbs on all your stuff.

[Grog]

This place is about 30 miles from my house.

Sport Copter Oregon

[Tim Hancock]

I knew a guy who died in one.... The main rotor took out the tail due to turblulance or an abrupt control input at which time the d@mn thing became a brick. I am a mechanical engineer, an A&P/IA, a experimental aircraft homebuilder and most who know me personally consider me a daredevil.... I would never consider owning one (I feel nearly the same about homebuilt helicopters). I do however feel perfectly safe in small light fixed wing aircraft provided I am flying over flat terrain in daylight VFR conditions. To each their own, but I don't like them nor do I care for powered parachutes.

[audiman08]

Originally Posted by Tim Hancock

I knew a guy who died in one.... The main rotor took out the tail due to turblulance or an abrupt control input at which time the d@mn thing became a brick. I am a mechanical engineer, an A&P/IA, a experimental aircraft homebuilder and most who know me personally consider me a daredevil.... I would never consider owning one (I feel nearly the same about homebuilt helicopters). I do however feel perfectly safe in small light fixed wing aircraft provided I am flying over flat terrain in daylight VFR conditions. To each their own, but I don't like them nor do I care for powered parachutes.

Yeah, I think you (and my father-in-law) are probably right. There's a lot of risk involved with these machines. It's too bad..

[MT930]

Originally Posted by Tim Hancock

I knew a guy who died in one.... The main rotor took out the tail due to turblulance or an abrupt control input at which time the d@mn thing became a brick. I am a mechanical engineer, an A&P/IA, a experimental aircraft homebuilder and most who know me personally consider me a daredevil.... I would never consider owning one (I feel nearly the same about homebuilt helicopters). I do however feel perfectly safe in small light fixed wing aircraft provided I am flying over flat terrain in daylight VFR conditions. To each their own, but I don't like them nor do I care for powered parachutes.

Amen !
Cool Yes Very !

Gyro copters voted the #1 fastest way to get your ticket punched.

I would stick with real helicopters or fixed wing homebuilts. I saw a Old C-152 for $15K how can you beat that for flying value?

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by MT930

Amen !
Cool Yes Very !

Gyro copters voted the #1 fastest way to get your ticket punched.

I would stick with real helicopters or fixed wing homebuilts. I saw a Old C-152 for $15K how can you beat that for flying value?

Did you and Tim buy bulk Vagisil

Me? I hate small gliders (all fixed wing Cessnas, etc.). Give me an autogyro in an emergency any day. If I have managed the flight properly, I'll walk.

Of course, I have lots of time in small gliders, zero in autogyros...but I'm willing, as a helo monkey, to say whatever makes an auto look viable

[Tim Hancock]

Paul, I am far from being a safety zealot, but the mechanical portions of most "homebuilt" auto gyros scare the crap out of me. One little AN3 (10-32) bolt lets go and the whole shooting match is over. For the last several years a company has been demonstrating tiny helicopters called mosquitoes. They are cool as hell, but once again, the thought of one of the main/tail rotor linkages taking a duke due to fatigue scares the poo out of me. At least the commercial built stuff has pretty well known fatigue limits.

Ever since a friend who owns and instructs in several small helicopters had a whole main rotor assembly depart his Enstrom when he was fortunately only maybe 15' in the air, I have not felt very safe about helicopters. I am sure the large military birds you flew had better service performed and are safe, but I like the security of having a solid fixed wing to glide down on if the engine give up the ghost.

[audiman08]

It's too bad factory built helicopters are so expensive...less guys would kill themselves flying kit-built models. Even the little Brantlys, Robinsons, Hillers, etc. are too pricey for most recreational pilots.

[Rikao4]

the probality of survival is equal to the angle of arrival..

Helo friend when I complimented the landing..
naw..just another smooth crash..

Rika

[944Larry]

I have quite a few hours in one of the old Ken Brock (he bought out Bensen I think) gyrocopters and felt pretty safe in it. The McCulloch 72 HP engine quit occasionally but the secret was to stay over terrain where you could land safely. I did see a guy cut off his thumb propping off an Air Command gyro and he later went on to buzz some of us on the ground, doing a steep climb, and pushed the stick forward, going into a negative "G" condition. The rotor head separated fron the airframe, killing him on ground contact. If you get one, just remember they are a minimum aircraft, the least little thing goes wrong. It could end not in your favor.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by Rikao4

the probality of survival is equal to the angle of arrival..

Helo friend when I complimented the landing..
naw..just another smooth crash..

Rika

Or, as a Vietnam era guy I flew with said: Never fly higher than you're willing to fall.

Tim, there is no one this board I respect more than you...all your fears I've had: but, when I've got to crash, I'd rather auto.

[Joeaksa]

Believe I will watch thank you...

[Tobra]

Yeah, they look cool, that is good enough for me, just looking