Thoughts on Autogyros?

[MT930]

Gyro copters are pretty cool I've know a few you have had them and lived but swore of them after incidents, one was a airline captain that was very lucky, he was out of service for almost a year, he shook hands with the reaper.

I've got kids to get through College + I'm involved in enough high risk behavior as it is.

I had an old neighbor who spend 3 years building one. It came back after a year in service very bent. It sat in the driveway for a summer. I would watch him limp/ shuffle out to the mail box afterwords. I like the concept but there too many moving parts and stuff that's flexing. One cracked bolt makes a smoking hole.

The Robinson 22's are about the minimum I would ride in. I've had 5 hours of duel instruction in them, I would trust them, Lots of bicycle chains on them

I would prefer a Bell 206 they feel good and secure. Cost is out of my current limits. I'll wave off until I can fly a real one.

[stuffinder]

Here's a link to a video of the Autogiro, Onlycafe & I saw fly at Old Rhinebeck years ago.
It's one of the larger autogiros built in the early 30's w/Wright 330HP engine. Costing $15K in 1931 they were primarily used by large companies as flying billboards. Miss Champion, shown in the video, was one of the most famous. It was flown by Capt. Lewis Yancey from FL to Cuba and on to Mexico's Yucatan Peninsula where it was photographed among the pyramids. It ended up in the Chicago Mus. of Science & Industry and was eventually sold to AK "Stutzie" Miller, of Montclair, NJ & VT for $900 in 1959!
Miller was a hoarder of Stutz autos as well as gold and silver. Steve Pitcairn, son of the founder of the Co. who built the airplane finally purchased it in 1982. He restored it and flew it to the EAA Fly-In at Oshkosh, WI in 1986. I believe we saw it at Rhinebeck the following year. Mr. Pitcairn gave it to the EAA in 2005. Mike & Larry Posey disassembled it and had it trucked to Oshkosh where they re-assembled it and Mr. Pitcairn flew it as shown in this video linked from the Posey Brothers website. Posey Brothers Inc.

Here's the video link:YouTube - PCA2 Autogiro Flying

If any of you would like more video's of vintage autogiros or more info I'm "knee-deep" in Autogiro memorabilia. (I have more than 75 cartons of the orig. company archives)
Regards,
Tom Heitzman (aka Stuffinder)
open

[matthew-s]

Who needs an autogyro for STOL?

YouTube - coulee air services carbon cub take off at cubcrafters open house 2007

YouTube - Carbon Cub Landing Valdez Short Field Landing Contest

I'd like my sport pilot license too.

[Tim Hancock]

Originally Posted by matthew-s

Who needs an autogyro for STOL?

My Minimax will get off the ground in well under 150'..... considerably less with a bit of head wind. On skis on a cold windy winter day, I have got off the ground in less than 50'


Problem is landing as I never built brakes for it. With clear approaches, I feel safe sitting her down on 300' of real estate. With trees and wires..... I need quite a bit more real estate. With brakes installed, my Max could probably win one of those Alaska bush plane contests.

[jyl]

" have quite a few hours in one of the old Ken Brock (he bought out Bensen I think) gyrocopters and felt pretty safe in it. The McCulloch 72 HP engine quit occasionally but the secret was to stay over terrain where you could land safely."

That is pretty funny. I think I would like to meet some owners of these machines. Then keep my eye out for the estate sale.

[944Larry]

Originally Posted by jyl

" have quite a few hours in one of the old Ken Brock (he bought out Bensen I think) gyrocopters and felt pretty safe in it. The McCulloch 72 HP engine quit occasionally but the secret was to stay over terrain where you could land safely."

That is pretty funny. I think I would like to meet some owners of these machines. Then keep my eye out for the estate sale.

Sorry! I guess I should have given more details here. This was in the late 70's, early 80's perhaps and a Bensen was a high-tech machine. I don't remember there being any other makes out there then. The McCulloch engine was a "drone" engine and a 2 cycle on top of that so engine failures were not that rare. I never flew over woods or anywhere I couldn't glide to a safe landing. Never put a scratch on it or me. The thing belonged a buddy of mine who built it and couldn't fly. There were a few of them around home and I did see several crashes but except for the one fatal one (which was enough) nobody got hurt except for being banged up. I have seen some of the newer gyros at Sun n' Fun and have been amazed at their technology. Enclosed cockpits, radios, GPS, 2 seats, Subaru engines on some and even a "jump" collective (lack of a better description here) that gives them a kind-of vertical take off capability.
I really wouldn't be afraid to fly one of the newer ones again. I do remember that on the old ones, the higher you got, the narrower that seat seemed to get.

[matthew-s]

Originally Posted by Tim Hancock

I do however feel perfectly safe in small light fixed wing aircraft provided I am flying over flat terrain in daylight VFR conditions.

Tim - what is your definition of "flat terrain"? Open fields of Nebraska? Anything other than mountainous? I've seen you say this before, and I keep going back to it when I think about getting my license.

Originally Posted by Tim Hancock

For the last several years a company has been demonstrating tiny helicopters called mosquitoes. They are cool as hell, but once again, the thought of one of the main/tail rotor linkages taking a duke due to fatigue scares the poo out of me.

I've seen these too, and they are very cool, but look scary. At least two of them have been involved in fatal accidents - and I'd guess there are not a ton of them out there.

Are autogyro's really safer than helicopters, and if so, why? The fact that a sport pilot can get certified on a gyro, but not a heli, leads me to believe gyro's are safer. They *look* more dangerous though!


Thanks

Matt
(from mostly-flat NJ).

[Seahawk]

Autogyros trade engine power for lift just like a fixed wing aircraft...after a lot of hours in a helo(s) (Bell, Kaman, Sikorsky, Mcy'D and Boeing) as long as the big fan turns, I'm at home. And I'll set it down in your yard if I have to after the lights go out.

I'd much rather trade altitude for rotor energy in an auto than glide in fixed wing after a loss of power.

Compared to Joe and Tim I have nearly zero hours in fixed wing appliances (just over 1000 and most of which you could get out of prior to deceleration trauma) so I'm a tad jaded.

[Tim Hancock]

Originally Posted by matthew-s

Tim - what is your definition of "flat terrain"? Open fields of Nebraska? Anything other than mountainous? I've seen you say this before, and I keep going back to it when I think about getting my license.

I live in NW Ohio in an area that is predominately farm country. If an engine quits in a single engine airplane around here during daylight hours and in clear weather, there is always some place available to do an off airport landing. Even if it is a field with crops growing in it, at least I know I will likely walk away fom the forced landing.

All bets are off when flying in areas like northern Michigan that is covered with forests or in places like Kentucky/Tenessee that are mountainous. Small light aircraft have touch down speeds of 30-60 mph.

Touching down in a rough field means possible flip over at maybe 30 mph prior to grinding to a halt, but is very survivable. Attempting the same into trees or a mountain side is not as fun to think about.

I have of course flown over wooded terrain and mountains but I always do it with as much altitude as possible while keeping a lookout for roads/clearings to attempt a glide to in case the single engine goes tits up. That is fine for the occasional cross country trip, but I do not think I would enjoy aviation nearly as much if I lived in terrain that meant every $100 hamburger or pancake breakfast flight meant exposing myself to periods of time that an engine failure might mean death or severe injury.

A helicopter that can more or less autogyrate down to a vertical landing in the event of engine failure alleviates "some" of the the risk over cluttered terrain, but over flat open country like where I live, I feel completely safe (even safer than driving 40 miles each way to work every day) flying my little fixed wing aircraft around with no worries of catastrophic failure turning me into a lawn dart.

So I guess I am saying that fixed wing light aircraft over open terrain are safer IMO than rotorcraft, but rotorcraft have the edge when operating over hazardous terrain. I would not hesitate to fly in a certified helicopter with someone with Seahawk's experience at the controls, but I simply do not trust the mechanicals of small kit built rotorcraft.

[Rick V]

Might make a good Christmas gift for the wife though.